2 ms·

I don't think they have anything against her personally. These tactics are used to fluster and confuse, and hopefully cause the subject to make a mistake. Clear

I don't think they have anything against her personally. These tactics are used to fluster and confuse, and hopefully cause the subject to make a mistake. Clearly it's effective. In a perfect world, this would only be applied to criminals. Because the agents aren't allowed to profile, they have to pull in people across the spectrum. Which includes authors, women with children, and old ladies. I don't think they mean any harm. They're trying to do their job of protecting the border, but they have protocol that they need to follow. Edit: anecdata, but there may be other reasons they make ridiculous selections like this (like old ladies). My grandmother, who is an elderly white lady who is hunched over, has the same name as a criminal on a watch list. Every time she went to the airport she was selected for additional screening. She never had the same experience as Fox, but sometimes they got real nasty. She always thanked them when they let her go, because what if she was actually the criminal, and they were protecting the country.

bluejekyll 10y ago
> I don't think they mean any harm. It's not the intention, but the fact that they are causing harm. They are not properly trained is what she pointed out. Minimal training, and lots of power... bad combination. Edit: maybe not lack of training, but instead being trained improperly. They could easily have been trained very well at acting this way.
- relics443 10y ago
  They are expertly trained. They did exactly what was needed, and it seems like they did an excellent job. Unfortunately the subject didn't need to be subjected to that for any reason other than random selection. Edit: They were trained for exactly what the situation would necessitate. Even if they only pulled her in for random selection purposes, they can't not subject her to the same treatment. Otherwise they could get sued for not treating everyone who gets selected the same. Go figure.
  - nraynaud 10y ago
    there is zero percent chance of suing, they are not acting under the Constitution. They have no legal limit to what they do.
    - relics443 10y ago
      So why do they pull in elderly women in wheelchairs? Because someone sued, saying that the agents were profiling.
  - bluejekyll 10y ago
    Yes, see my edit. But I disagree that this is appropriate, even at random. We are treating everyone like criminals. Why? This is not the society I was raised in. We are acting out of fear, I was raised to act out of compassion. Someone gets pulled from a line, at random, and is treated like a criminal... for no reason. They could easily have not pulled the criminal from the line, and now what you have is a pissed off person will do whatever she can to fight this system.
    - relics443 10y ago
      They're treated like a criminal, because the criminals sued, saying "why are we the only ones treated like this". They'll also do it because something tripped their alarm, and they have to do due diligence (see my updated note about my grandmother).
nraynaud 10y ago
I think they do mean harm, they want to distress the people because they know that people in distress tend to self-accuse. They go as far as they can on the spectrum from verbal abuse to torture. Moreover 1) there is absolutely no need to behave that way even to a criminal 2) people on the international zone of an airport have not yet had the opportunity to commit any local crime, since they are not yet in the jurisdiction, the entire premise is flawed if they are not returning. And if they are returning and accused of a crime, there is a different system in a different room for them.
- relics443 10y ago
  Yes, they do want to distress people, but they don't have anything against them personally. They weren't looking for Fox to self-accuse; she was only in there to fill their quota of older white women who they needed to pull in. If someone is coming into the country with intent to perform illegal activity, then I say they're not doing enough. As a citizen, I don't want those people in my country.
  - nraynaud 10y ago
    You don't get a job where your role is to make people's life hell, even for a few hours, if you don't have any inclination for it, these are unionized federal workers whose skills are transferable, not slaves. They are not bothered enough by their own and their co-workers behavior to resign, they self-selected. Moreover, this entire "the bad people are coming to kill us from outside" is crap, Americans suicide themselves with their food, their cars (about 100 every day) and their guns. This is just pandering to the red necks.
    - relics443 10y ago
      Wow, your anti American bias is showing. So you maintain that because a percentage of Americans live their lives a certain way, there's no need to defend the border?

bluejekyll 10y ago

> I don't think they mean any harm. It's not the intention, but the fact that they are causing harm. They are not properly trained is what she pointed out. Minimal training, and lots of power... bad combination. Edit: maybe not lack of training, but instead being trained improperly. They could easily have been trained very well at acting this way.

relics443 10y ago
They are expertly trained. They did exactly what was needed, and it seems like they did an excellent job. Unfortunately the subject didn't need to be subjected to that for any reason other than random selection. Edit: They were trained for exactly what the situation would necessitate. Even if they only pulled her in for random selection purposes, they can't not subject her to the same treatment. Otherwise they could get sued for not treating everyone who gets selected the same. Go figure.
- nraynaud 10y ago
  there is zero percent chance of suing, they are not acting under the Constitution. They have no legal limit to what they do.
  - relics443 10y ago
    So why do they pull in elderly women in wheelchairs? Because someone sued, saying that the agents were profiling.
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  Yes, see my edit. But I disagree that this is appropriate, even at random. We are treating everyone like criminals. Why? This is not the society I was raised in. We are acting out of fear, I was raised to act out of compassion. Someone gets pulled from a line, at random, and is treated like a criminal... for no reason. They could easily have not pulled the criminal from the line, and now what you have is a pissed off person will do whatever she can to fight this system.
  - relics443 10y ago
    They're treated like a criminal, because the criminals sued, saying "why are we the only ones treated like this". They'll also do it because something tripped their alarm, and they have to do due diligence (see my updated note about my grandmother).

nraynaud 10y ago

I think they do mean harm, they want to distress the people because they know that people in distress tend to self-accuse. They go as far as they can on the spectrum from verbal abuse to torture. Moreover 1) there is absolutely no need to behave that way even to a criminal 2) people on the international zone of an airport have not yet had the opportunity to commit any local crime, since they are not yet in the jurisdiction, the entire premise is flawed if they are not returning. And if they are returning and accused of a crime, there is a different system in a different room for them.

relics443 10y ago
Yes, they do want to distress people, but they don't have anything against them personally. They weren't looking for Fox to self-accuse; she was only in there to fill their quota of older white women who they needed to pull in. If someone is coming into the country with intent to perform illegal activity, then I say they're not doing enough. As a citizen, I don't want those people in my country.
- nraynaud 10y ago
  You don't get a job where your role is to make people's life hell, even for a few hours, if you don't have any inclination for it, these are unionized federal workers whose skills are transferable, not slaves. They are not bothered enough by their own and their co-workers behavior to resign, they self-selected. Moreover, this entire "the bad people are coming to kill us from outside" is crap, Americans suicide themselves with their food, their cars (about 100 every day) and their guns. This is just pandering to the red necks.
  - relics443 10y ago
    Wow, your anti American bias is showing. So you maintain that because a percentage of Americans live their lives a certain way, there's no need to defend the border?