5 ms·

Large corporations need hordes of people doing boring work in a reliable and predictable, easily manageable manner. Society needs what large corporations produc

by dilemma 10y ago

Large corporations need hordes of people doing boring work in a reliable and predictable, easily manageable manner. Society needs what large corporations produce. People need the wages these corporations pay. The 40hr work week is going nowhere.

nvk 10y ago
100% this, most people don't realize a lot of these corps are the "Jobs Programs". They take huge tax breaks to provide these 40/hr week unproductive boring jobs, or no one else will. In Canada we call them Banks and Telcos.
- rmckayfleming 10y ago
  And Bombardier.
princeb 10y ago
corporations need to process work that can manifest in a specific manner, and in non specific manners too. to use an example of a fictional manufacturing company, i'd like to commission a piece of software that can do almost anything- from processing an order from any business, that can come in digital format, scanned, printed, or spoken over the phone, to generating an purchase orders and sales orders to our suppliers and distributors who may have an online interface or who may still use fax or phone and may communicate in english or not english. that is quite a difficult piece of software to build so most companies don't actually build that at all. instead they rely on hordes of people who are configurable in any imaginable way to solve problems that appear in unimaginable forms.
k__ 10y ago
Large corps are simply small corps that transitioned from innovators to job-generators. The are a bit like the socialism in capitalism. Most of the jobs are redundant and could be done more efficiently by a bunch of small corps instead of one big.
- iamatworknow 10y ago
  It's funny that I'm experiencing that exact transition at the company where I work, and it's not even that big yet. When I first started I was getting paid a pretty paltry amount, but there were only 20 or so employees and each of us basically did whatever was required to succeed. Now we're up to almost 100 employees and I still work here, making over double my starting salary, but I do so much less work. I've carved out my little niche in the project pipeline and outside of that I read HN or Reddit. I feel a little guilty but I'm still getting the work done that's asked of me and receiving praise and raises from management, so...
kawera 10y ago
There are a lot of pointless jobs too. Related: http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/ http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-d...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- treehau5 10y ago
  Do pointless jobs pay pointless money?
branchless 10y ago
Landlords need us to work all the time so they don't have to. We should move to a 4 day week.
- pc86 10y ago
  Do you pay your landlord less if you are home more? Is shelter worth less if people have jobs with alternative schedules?
  - branchless 10y ago
    Someone doesn't know how prices are set!
    - pc86 10y ago
      Buy a house and you won't have a landlord. I'm not sure why living in someone else's home is something you shouldn't have to pay market rate for.
      - branchless 10y ago
        Market rate is set by wages less other essentials. As is buying rate. Credit issuance against land consumes all surplus value. Hence why not work 4 days en mass.
aloisdg 10y ago
In France, we have 35 hours work week. It works fine enough. I cant imagine moving to 40 hours.
- pc86 10y ago
  An hour a day either direction doesn't make much difference at all; what makes a bigger difference is what time you come or go. I'm very lucky in my current gig that I can come and go as I please provided I get those 40 hours and as a team we cover the business day. I'd much rather work 40 hours or even more, working 6-2 or similar, than work 30 hours a week and have to deal with rush hour traffic.
  - clarry 10y ago
    > An hour a day either direction doesn't make much difference at all; But it can make a big difference. I don't think I can stay productive for 8 hours straight on the average day. So the last 1-2 hours are a miserable grind, effectively wasted time. Add to that, I don't live to work, I work to live. I'd be very happy if I had quite a bit of energy left when I get home so I can live my life too. I think the real problem is the just lack of flexibility. If 40 works for you, why shouldn't you be allowed to work 40. At the same time, that doesn't mean everybody should be working 40. Same for any other number of hours. Same for any the time...
    - pc86 10y ago
      The problem is twofold (at least) - 1) most people this is relevant to are not paid hourly; 2) most people this is relevant to do not have clearly defined metrics measuring their work product (e.g. number of widgets produced, widgets produced per unit of time, etc). Combine those two and you have a scenario where 40 is the minimum, doing less is seen very negatively, and there's no real way to prove you're producing more or at a higher quality working 30 hours than the guy next to you working 55.
      - clarry 10y ago
        Then maybe they should be paid hourly. I'd be happy to work 30 hours even if that meant I got less done than the other guy working 55 hours. For this, I'd happily trade some salary.
barnacs 10y ago
> Large corporations need hordes of people doing boring work in a reliable and predictable, easily manageable manner. That's what machines are for. We need to embrace automation. > Society needs what large corporations produce Nope. Large corporations spend loads of money and manpower to make people think they need what they produce. > People need the wages these corporations pay. Not if they resist the manipulation to buy all the useless stuff. Not if automation makes everything cheaper. > The 40hr work week is going nowhere. Oh, but it is going. The sooner we realize this, the easier the transition will be.

by dilemma 10y ago

nvk 10y ago

100% this, most people don't realize a lot of these corps are the "Jobs Programs". They take huge tax breaks to provide these 40/hr week unproductive boring jobs, or no one else will. In Canada we call them Banks and Telcos.

rmckayfleming 10y ago
And Bombardier.

princeb 10y ago

corporations need to process work that can manifest in a specific manner, and in non specific manners too. to use an example of a fictional manufacturing company, i'd like to commission a piece of software that can do almost anything- from processing an order from any business, that can come in digital format, scanned, printed, or spoken over the phone, to generating an purchase orders and sales orders to our suppliers and distributors who may have an online interface or who may still use fax or phone and may communicate in english or not english. that is quite a difficult piece of software to build so most companies don't actually build that at all. instead they rely on hordes of people who are configurable in any imaginable way to solve problems that appear in unimaginable forms.

k__ 10y ago

Large corps are simply small corps that transitioned from innovators to job-generators. The are a bit like the socialism in capitalism. Most of the jobs are redundant and could be done more efficiently by a bunch of small corps instead of one big.

iamatworknow 10y ago
It's funny that I'm experiencing that exact transition at the company where I work, and it's not even that big yet. When I first started I was getting paid a pretty paltry amount, but there were only 20 or so employees and each of us basically did whatever was required to succeed. Now we're up to almost 100 employees and I still work here, making over double my starting salary, but I do so much less work. I've carved out my little niche in the project pipeline and outside of that I read HN or Reddit. I feel a little guilty but I'm still getting the work done that's asked of me and receiving praise and raises from management, so...

kawera 10y ago

There are a lot of pointless jobs too. Related: http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-david-graeber/ http://evonomics.com/why-capitalism-creates-pointless-jobs-d...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
treehau5 10y ago
Do pointless jobs pay pointless money?

branchless 10y ago

Landlords need us to work all the time so they don't have to. We should move to a 4 day week.

pc86 10y ago
Do you pay your landlord less if you are home more? Is shelter worth less if people have jobs with alternative schedules?
- branchless 10y ago
  Someone doesn't know how prices are set!
  - pc86 10y ago
    Buy a house and you won't have a landlord. I'm not sure why living in someone else's home is something you shouldn't have to pay market rate for.
    - branchless 10y ago
      Market rate is set by wages less other essentials. As is buying rate. Credit issuance against land consumes all surplus value. Hence why not work 4 days en mass.

aloisdg 10y ago

In France, we have 35 hours work week. It works fine enough. I cant imagine moving to 40 hours.

pc86 10y ago
An hour a day either direction doesn't make much difference at all; what makes a bigger difference is what time you come or go. I'm very lucky in my current gig that I can come and go as I please provided I get those 40 hours and as a team we cover the business day. I'd much rather work 40 hours or even more, working 6-2 or similar, than work 30 hours a week and have to deal with rush hour traffic.
- clarry 10y ago
  > An hour a day either direction doesn't make much difference at all; But it can make a big difference. I don't think I can stay productive for 8 hours straight on the average day. So the last 1-2 hours are a miserable grind, effectively wasted time. Add to that, I don't live to work, I work to live. I'd be very happy if I had quite a bit of energy left when I get home so I can live my life too. I think the real problem is the just lack of flexibility. If 40 works for you, why shouldn't you be allowed to work 40. At the same time, that doesn't mean everybody should be working 40. Same for any other number of hours. Same for any the time...
  - pc86 10y ago
    The problem is twofold (at least) - 1) most people this is relevant to are not paid hourly; 2) most people this is relevant to do not have clearly defined metrics measuring their work product (e.g. number of widgets produced, widgets produced per unit of time, etc). Combine those two and you have a scenario where 40 is the minimum, doing less is seen very negatively, and there's no real way to prove you're producing more or at a higher quality working 30 hours than the guy next to you working 55.
    - clarry 10y ago
      Then maybe they should be paid hourly. I'd be happy to work 30 hours even if that meant I got less done than the other guy working 55 hours. For this, I'd happily trade some salary.

barnacs 10y ago

> Large corporations need hordes of people doing boring work in a reliable and predictable, easily manageable manner. That's what machines are for. We need to embrace automation. > Society needs what large corporations produce Nope. Large corporations spend loads of money and manpower to make people think they need what they produce. > People need the wages these corporations pay. Not if they resist the manipulation to buy all the useless stuff. Not if automation makes everything cheaper. > The 40hr work week is going nowhere. Oh, but it is going. The sooner we realize this, the easier the transition will be.