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> Merely saying that consciousness is a product of the brain is like proving dark matter by saying it's a product of the universe. This statement is nonsense.
by lngnmn 10y ago
> Merely saying that consciousness is a product of the brain is like proving dark matter by saying it's a product of the universe.
This statement is nonsense. The presence or absence of consciousness could be empirically verified and experimentally tested. The presence or absence of dark matter could not be empirically verified because the concept which is referenced by this pair of words belongs to the category of abstract ideas.
Notice, that consciousness is not an abstract idea, it belong to the category of biological processes. You have here a logical error of assuming existence of an abstract concept, which neither could be empirically verified
nor experimentally tested.
There is a subtle difference between a product of the physical brain and a product of group-thinking or sectarian beliefs. While the concepts which form the basis of this or that system of beliefs are certainly exist inside the consciousness of the individual believers and certainly are presented in their shared vocabulary, the phenomena which these concepts presumably accurately and completely capture does not exist anywhere in the universe.
- dragonwriter 10y ago> The presence or absence of consciousness could be empirically verified and experimentally tested. No, it can't; there are various behavioral traits that are conjectured to be indicative of consciousness that can be tested, but consciousness itself can either be tested nor observed in anyone except the observer. > Notice, that consciousness is not an abstract idea, it belong to the category of biological processes. No, consciousness is not a biological process, it's a phenomenon which is assumed to occur as a product of biological processes, though it's often conjectured that it could also occur as a product of other processes as well.
- lngnmn 10y agoYes, consciousness is a product of various behavioral traits, but its presence could be empirically tested. There are simple quick medical procedures which could tell whether a man (or even a dog) is conscious or not, and there is an ultimate test in a fMRI scanner which could prove that the patient has no consciousness. Any religious nonsense about validity of the fMRI test is plain stupidity. Some limited artificial consciousness is obviously possible, even artificial self-consciousness, at least in theory. But possibility does not imply existence.
- MikkoFinell 10y ago> The presence or absence of consciousness could be empirically verified and experimentally tested. How? > consciousness is not an abstract idea, it belong to the category of biological processes. Okay, describe the experiment which can prove that you are justified in making such statements.