3 ms·

Just a week ago, in Australia: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=89683&src=share http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=89683&src=..

Just a week ago, in Australia: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=89683&src=share http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=89683&src=... Try and geo engineer against 50+ degrees C for weeks. Plants die at these temperatures and we don't have technology to counter that. At current rate, we've got maybe a couple of years left before heatwaves kill off all vegetation in many parts of the world with all the dire consequences for humans and animals living there. -- Unfortunately, it will take total collapse for people to understand that we have an impossible lifestyle - meaning a wrong philosophy about life, nature and each other. It's not about what we need to do, it's about what we need to stop doing. And I think that's the impossible task, because that means dismantling our current 'economy' and rebuilding it on new principles, new mathematics, etc.

restalis 10y ago
"Plants die at these temperatures and we don't have technology to counter that." Actually, we do. Much of that heat is generated because of barren land. The barren land is so because of the regulations that aim to preserve as much of the outback as it is. You say there isn't technology, but one of the possible measures was available for thousands of years. Just plant massively on that land. There are desert plants that resist well enough in that kind of environment and will reduce the amount of heating. Before starting on me with the dangerous consequences this may cause, just let me assure you that I'm well aware of the recurrent mass fires that occur in much of the continental Aussie and many other problems. I only wish to stress that there is something that can be tried out in the face of the kind of problems you pointed out to. Although I agree that human intervention carries significant aport in the global warming, I think though it merely accelerated a natural process that would have happened anyway. So maybe we don't have to stop doing something (fear-based, self-limiting approach) but try instead to understand and use these natural changes of our world (curiosity-based, exploratory approach). Let's embrace change, or at least give it a chance.
- Diederich 10y ago
  I've always considered myself an ardent but highly pragmatic environmentalist. As such, I have realized that possible useful paths forward are some mass changes, on the scale of those that you describe. However, I haven't see anything in particular related to, effectively, terraforming most of Australia. Do you have any citations about the how that might work, and what impact it might have?
  - Jedd 10y ago
    David Holmgren - one of the co-developers of Permaculture - produced a book a while back called Trees on The Treeless Plains[1]. The developing of arid lands into something productive (without requiring massive or on-going inputs of energy, nutrients, water, etc) is a common theme among a lot of the big names in Permaculture - you could review some of Geoff Lawton's publications on the work he's been doing in Jordan[2] FWIW, my experience trying to grow productive trees in areas of Australia with (annual) 3 metre evaporation rates and average 600mm rainfall (with some multi-year droughts) and frequent 45C weeks through the summer period -- the single biggest requirement for success is native animal exclusion while trying to get pioneer trees established. [1] https://holmgren.com.au/product/treeless-plains/?v=3a1ed7090bfa https://holmgren.com.au/product/treeless-plains/?v=3a1ed7090... [2] http://permaculturenews.org/2013/11/19/rough-ready-real-november-2013-update-dead-sea-valley-permaculture-project-aka-greening-desert-sequel-site/ http://permaculturenews.org/2013/11/19/rough-ready-real-nove...
    - Diederich 10y ago
      Excellent material, thank you!

restalis 10y ago

"Plants die at these temperatures and we don't have technology to counter that." Actually, we do. Much of that heat is generated because of barren land. The barren land is so because of the regulations that aim to preserve as much of the outback as it is. You say there isn't technology, but one of the possible measures was available for thousands of years. Just plant massively on that land. There are desert plants that resist well enough in that kind of environment and will reduce the amount of heating. Before starting on me with the dangerous consequences this may cause, just let me assure you that I'm well aware of the recurrent mass fires that occur in much of the continental Aussie and many other problems. I only wish to stress that there is something that can be tried out in the face of the kind of problems you pointed out to. Although I agree that human intervention carries significant aport in the global warming, I think though it merely accelerated a natural process that would have happened anyway. So maybe we don't have to stop doing something (fear-based, self-limiting approach) but try instead to understand and use these natural changes of our world (curiosity-based, exploratory approach). Let's embrace change, or at least give it a chance.

Diederich 10y ago
I've always considered myself an ardent but highly pragmatic environmentalist. As such, I have realized that possible useful paths forward are some mass changes, on the scale of those that you describe. However, I haven't see anything in particular related to, effectively, terraforming most of Australia. Do you have any citations about the how that might work, and what impact it might have?
- Jedd 10y ago
  David Holmgren - one of the co-developers of Permaculture - produced a book a while back called Trees on The Treeless Plains[1]. The developing of arid lands into something productive (without requiring massive or on-going inputs of energy, nutrients, water, etc) is a common theme among a lot of the big names in Permaculture - you could review some of Geoff Lawton's publications on the work he's been doing in Jordan[2] FWIW, my experience trying to grow productive trees in areas of Australia with (annual) 3 metre evaporation rates and average 600mm rainfall (with some multi-year droughts) and frequent 45C weeks through the summer period -- the single biggest requirement for success is native animal exclusion while trying to get pioneer trees established. [1] https://holmgren.com.au/product/treeless-plains/?v=3a1ed7090bfa https://holmgren.com.au/product/treeless-plains/?v=3a1ed7090... [2] http://permaculturenews.org/2013/11/19/rough-ready-real-november-2013-update-dead-sea-valley-permaculture-project-aka-greening-desert-sequel-site/ http://permaculturenews.org/2013/11/19/rough-ready-real-nove...
  - Diederich 10y ago
    Excellent material, thank you!