5 ms·

Why would I buy the Raspberry Pi Zero instead of an OrangePi PC ($15) or an OrangePi Zero ($8.99)? With the latter, I can actually use an M.2 SSD with the HATs

by trome 10y ago

Why would I buy the Raspberry Pi Zero instead of an OrangePi PC ($15) or an OrangePi Zero ($8.99)? With the latter, I can actually use an M.2 SSD with the HATs available for it, and I'll get 40MB/s unlike the Raspi's 4 to 5MB/s, and both OrangePis are able to run a fully libre stack with kernel 4.10 and have much more CPU grunt than this Raspi (4x Cortex A7 @ 1.2Ghz vs one ancient ARMv6 core at 1Ghz). The built in ethernet port, full size USB port and ability to easily add POE support are just gravy on top to make it easily usable, rather than have a dozen dongles and a USB hub hanging off it needlessly. Edit: Added kernel version, clarified POE support.

kogepathic 10y ago
Okay, people who read this and want to go and buy the Orange Pi Zero: PLEASE read the following before purchasing! > I can actually use an M.2 SSD with the HATs available for it The NAS hat costs $7 extra plus shipping ($4 to EU for me). [0] And to my knowledge there is no case for the Ornage Pi Zero which can accommodate the NAS hat. > and POE support It doesn't support POE out of the box, and it's not 802.3af/at compliant. [1] You can use a passive PoE injector, but 5V in a CAT5/6 cable won't get you very far. You can use a higher voltage, but then you need to add a DC/DC voltage converter and unsolder some resistors from the PCB. In short: it's a lot of work to get POE working. It's not really worthwhile. Also the WiFi on the Orange Pi Zero is a piece of shit. [2] Performance is crap and there's high packet loss. Allwinner's driver is a steaming pile of shit and no one from Xunlong or Allwinner is working to make it any better. The stock images from Xunlong are using kernel 3.4! Several people from Armbian are trying to improve the driver, but there's no public datasheet and the firmware of the wireless module is pretty crash happy. Also it's 2.4GHz 1T1R (same as the Raspberry Pi W) so the performance is always going to be bad, even after (or if) Armbian manages to fix up the driver. - *Does the Orange Pi Zero outperform the Raspberry Pi (Zero, W, 1, 2)?* Yes. - *Should I buy the Orange Pi Zero for my project that needs WiFi?* No. - *Should I buy the Orange Pi Zero for a project requiring USB and Ethernet?* Yes! - *Should I use the images from Xunlong for my Orange Pi <whatever>?* Please no! Use Armbian ( https://www.armbian.com/ ) Images from Xunlong are using an ancient kernel and don't have proper power/thermal management for the SoC. With Armbian and the mainline kernel, temperatures are under control and you don't need a heat sink unless you're using 100% CPU all the time. Also, cores don't randomly shut off due to overheating. [0] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Zero-NAS-Expansion-board-Interface-board-Development-board-beyond-Raspberry-Pi/32789632568.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Zero-NAS-Expansion... [1] http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board [2] https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/3243-orange-pi-zero-wireless-module-status-xradio-st-cw1200/?p=24447 https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/3243-orange-pi-zer...
- trome 10y ago
  > The NAS hat costs $7 extra plus shipping ($4 to EU for me). [0] And to my knowledge there is no case for the Ornage Pi Zero which can accommodate the NAS hat. Sure, but your gonna be able to max out the ethernet port on an OrangePi Zero, whereas none of the Raspberry Pis can even fill half of a 100Mbps ethernet port. Printing a case isn't all that hard, or you could always build it from thin plywood, cardbord or something else if you want a case. > It doesn't support POE out of the box No, but you can wire it for any type of POE you want, whether that be 5v, 12v to 24v, or proper 48v POE. The traces are already there on the PCB, and at that price point I doubt anyone could fit in a buck converter to make it do 48v POE without increasing the cost by a few bucks. > WiFi on the Orange Pi Zero is a piece of shit. That and every other SBC, I've got a Raspberry Pi 3 on the shelf that I wrote off due to poor wifi performance. SBCs with small integrated antennas just aren't gonna have amazing wifi. Most of what was in the BSP is now mainlined in kernel 4.10 by the way. Armbian is decent, I've been quemu-debootstrapping my own images though since I'm not a fan of all the modifications they make to Debian.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    > No, but you can wire it for any type of POE you want, whether that be 5v, 12v to 24v, or proper 48v POE. The traces are already there on the PCB, and at that price point I doubt anyone could fit in a buck converter to make it do 48v POE without increasing the cost by a few bucks. So, you can buy an extra buck converter^ and solder it yourself --removing additional resistors on the PCB-- and it still won't be 802.3af/at compliant, or you can just buy a proper PoE adaptor for $10. [0] ^ Please show me a buck converter that does 48VDC->5VDC for "a few bucks" [0] http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/TL-POE10R.html http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/TL-POE10R.html
    - trome 10y ago
      What? You definitely don't need to remove any resistors onboard. Edit: Guess I'm just unfamiliar wrt POE, since I usually use 5v frankenPOE on these boards.
bootloop 10y ago
Other usecases than yours listed. The RaspberryPI Zero is really small, has a camera connector as well as a lot of software and documentation. Not everyone uses a RaspberryPI as a homeserver replacement.
- Yaggo 10y ago
  E.g. h264 encoding on hardware & stereo camera support (only on compute module) are unique features of the RPi platform.
  - megous 10y ago
    It's not: https://github.com/rosimildo/videoenc https://github.com/rosimildo/videoenc (H3)
detaro 10y ago
> POE support You got my hopes up, but it's not even passive "PoE", they just exposed the unused pairs on solder pads.... Something Pi-like with proper PoE would be great, but that is just to exotic a feature it seems.
- trome 10y ago
  Clarified, sorry about that! I generally just put a blob of solder on the pads to bridge them, then I get frankenPOE at 5v.
  - knob 10y ago
    Can you expand on this? How do you do this? I'm interested in doing the same, yet I have no idea how are you going about this. Any links/photos? Thank you!
    - trome 10y ago
      Kogepathic posted this further down, its just two pads you'd put a 0 ohm resistor on or cross connect: http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Passive_PoE http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Passive_PoE
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- knob 10y ago
  Check this out: https://www.amazon.com/802-3af-Splitter-MicroUSB-Devices-WT-AF-5v10w-microUSB/dp/B019BMFCH8 https://www.amazon.com/802-3af-Splitter-MicroUSB-Devices-WT-... Hope it helps you! =)
andmarios 10y ago
Vendor and developer support, community size, available tutorials, etc.
- trome 10y ago
  I don't see Broadcom supporting their chips very well with the Raspberry Pi, you basically can't use most of the boards functionality on Debian without adding a bunch of blobs. Wrt community, linux-sunxi and Armbian are both in better states than the Raspberry Pi community on their forums or on Reddit, if I google for dhclient issues with the Raspberry Pi I'm gonna get nowhere fast on fixing said issues.
  - bootloop 10y ago
    This is the same for every ARM board if you want multimedia support. (Because these companies do not allow you to publish their IP) Ofc if you only connect a punch of hard drives to it and a ethernet cable you are not gonna appreciate what possibilities a Raspberry Pi and their quite open software stack are able to offer you. Get a camera and hardware encoding involved in your tinkering and you will have a bad time for sure.
    - trome 10y ago
      Uhh, when you actually talk to Allwinner, they are generally pretty helpful unless its not their IP to give. I've emailed Tyle at Allwinner in the past to clear up some chunks of code in the kernel 3.4 BSP, and I found most of the time the code was intended to be under GPLv2, which he clarified. How is libmmal for the Raspberry Pi's camera libre by the way? The license looks to be proprietary, definitely the opposite of open.
  - _acme 10y ago
    Well, I can easily use, for example, Plan 9 or RISC OS, on a Raspberry Pi without any porting effort whatsoever. Some of us have use cases that do not simply involve Linux.
  - andmarios 10y ago
chubs 10y ago
Risk-adjusted pricing: If you buy one of the many alternatives out there, maybe you've got a 50% chance of it working? So the 'real' price doubles on those alternatives. People do this kind of risk mitigation in their head all the time. When I say 'working' - i'm talking about the reviews of the alternatives that almost always talk about how hard it is to download the software and get them working, there's always some snag.
tyingq 10y ago
Has OrangePi fixed their issues with overheating?
- trome 10y ago
  Yeah, its just a voltage/clockspeed setting that was easily remedied in software.

by trome 10y ago

kogepathic 10y ago

Okay, people who read this and want to go and buy the Orange Pi Zero: PLEASE read the following before purchasing! > I can actually use an M.2 SSD with the HATs available for it The NAS hat costs $7 extra plus shipping ($4 to EU for me). [0] And to my knowledge there is no case for the Ornage Pi Zero which can accommodate the NAS hat. > and POE support It doesn't support POE out of the box, and it's not 802.3af/at compliant. [1] You can use a passive PoE injector, but 5V in a CAT5/6 cable won't get you very far. You can use a higher voltage, but then you need to add a DC/DC voltage converter and unsolder some resistors from the PCB. In short: it's a lot of work to get POE working. It's not really worthwhile. Also the WiFi on the Orange Pi Zero is a piece of shit. [2] Performance is crap and there's high packet loss. Allwinner's driver is a steaming pile of shit and no one from Xunlong or Allwinner is working to make it any better. The stock images from Xunlong are using kernel 3.4! Several people from Armbian are trying to improve the driver, but there's no public datasheet and the firmware of the wireless module is pretty crash happy. Also it's 2.4GHz 1T1R (same as the Raspberry Pi W) so the performance is always going to be bad, even after (or if) Armbian manages to fix up the driver. - *Does the Orange Pi Zero outperform the Raspberry Pi (Zero, W, 1, 2)?* Yes. - *Should I buy the Orange Pi Zero for my project that needs WiFi?* No. - *Should I buy the Orange Pi Zero for a project requiring USB and Ethernet?* Yes! - *Should I use the images from Xunlong for my Orange Pi <whatever>?* Please no! Use Armbian ( https://www.armbian.com/ ) Images from Xunlong are using an ancient kernel and don't have proper power/thermal management for the SoC. With Armbian and the mainline kernel, temperatures are under control and you don't need a heat sink unless you're using 100% CPU all the time. Also, cores don't randomly shut off due to overheating. [0] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Zero-NAS-Expansion-board-Interface-board-Development-board-beyond-Raspberry-Pi/32789632568.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Zero-NAS-Expansion... [1] http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board [2] https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/3243-orange-pi-zero-wireless-module-status-xradio-st-cw1200/?p=24447 https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/3243-orange-pi-zer...

trome 10y ago
> The NAS hat costs $7 extra plus shipping ($4 to EU for me). [0] And to my knowledge there is no case for the Ornage Pi Zero which can accommodate the NAS hat. Sure, but your gonna be able to max out the ethernet port on an OrangePi Zero, whereas none of the Raspberry Pis can even fill half of a 100Mbps ethernet port. Printing a case isn't all that hard, or you could always build it from thin plywood, cardbord or something else if you want a case. > It doesn't support POE out of the box No, but you can wire it for any type of POE you want, whether that be 5v, 12v to 24v, or proper 48v POE. The traces are already there on the PCB, and at that price point I doubt anyone could fit in a buck converter to make it do 48v POE without increasing the cost by a few bucks. > WiFi on the Orange Pi Zero is a piece of shit. That and every other SBC, I've got a Raspberry Pi 3 on the shelf that I wrote off due to poor wifi performance. SBCs with small integrated antennas just aren't gonna have amazing wifi. Most of what was in the BSP is now mainlined in kernel 4.10 by the way. Armbian is decent, I've been quemu-debootstrapping my own images though since I'm not a fan of all the modifications they make to Debian.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > No, but you can wire it for any type of POE you want, whether that be 5v, 12v to 24v, or proper 48v POE. The traces are already there on the PCB, and at that price point I doubt anyone could fit in a buck converter to make it do 48v POE without increasing the cost by a few bucks. So, you can buy an extra buck converter^ and solder it yourself --removing additional resistors on the PCB-- and it still won't be 802.3af/at compliant, or you can just buy a proper PoE adaptor for $10. [0] ^ Please show me a buck converter that does 48VDC->5VDC for "a few bucks" [0] http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/TL-POE10R.html http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/TL-POE10R.html
  - trome 10y ago
    What? You definitely don't need to remove any resistors onboard. Edit: Guess I'm just unfamiliar wrt POE, since I usually use 5v frankenPOE on these boards.

bootloop 10y ago

Other usecases than yours listed. The RaspberryPI Zero is really small, has a camera connector as well as a lot of software and documentation. Not everyone uses a RaspberryPI as a homeserver replacement.

Yaggo 10y ago
E.g. h264 encoding on hardware & stereo camera support (only on compute module) are unique features of the RPi platform.
- megous 10y ago
  It's not: https://github.com/rosimildo/videoenc https://github.com/rosimildo/videoenc (H3)

detaro 10y ago

> POE support You got my hopes up, but it's not even passive "PoE", they just exposed the unused pairs on solder pads.... Something Pi-like with proper PoE would be great, but that is just to exotic a feature it seems.

trome 10y ago
Clarified, sorry about that! I generally just put a blob of solder on the pads to bridge them, then I get frankenPOE at 5v.
- knob 10y ago
  Can you expand on this? How do you do this? I'm interested in doing the same, yet I have no idea how are you going about this. Any links/photos? Thank you!
  - trome 10y ago
    Kogepathic posted this further down, its just two pads you'd put a 0 ohm resistor on or cross connect: http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Passive_PoE http://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_Zero#Passive_PoE
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
knob 10y ago
Check this out: https://www.amazon.com/802-3af-Splitter-MicroUSB-Devices-WT-AF-5v10w-microUSB/dp/B019BMFCH8 https://www.amazon.com/802-3af-Splitter-MicroUSB-Devices-WT-... Hope it helps you! =)

andmarios 10y ago

Vendor and developer support, community size, available tutorials, etc.

trome 10y ago
I don't see Broadcom supporting their chips very well with the Raspberry Pi, you basically can't use most of the boards functionality on Debian without adding a bunch of blobs. Wrt community, linux-sunxi and Armbian are both in better states than the Raspberry Pi community on their forums or on Reddit, if I google for dhclient issues with the Raspberry Pi I'm gonna get nowhere fast on fixing said issues.
- bootloop 10y ago
  This is the same for every ARM board if you want multimedia support. (Because these companies do not allow you to publish their IP) Ofc if you only connect a punch of hard drives to it and a ethernet cable you are not gonna appreciate what possibilities a Raspberry Pi and their quite open software stack are able to offer you. Get a camera and hardware encoding involved in your tinkering and you will have a bad time for sure.
  - trome 10y ago
    Uhh, when you actually talk to Allwinner, they are generally pretty helpful unless its not their IP to give. I've emailed Tyle at Allwinner in the past to clear up some chunks of code in the kernel 3.4 BSP, and I found most of the time the code was intended to be under GPLv2, which he clarified. How is libmmal for the Raspberry Pi's camera libre by the way? The license looks to be proprietary, definitely the opposite of open.
- _acme 10y ago
  Well, I can easily use, for example, Plan 9 or RISC OS, on a Raspberry Pi without any porting effort whatsoever. Some of us have use cases that do not simply involve Linux.
- andmarios 10y ago

chubs 10y ago

Risk-adjusted pricing: If you buy one of the many alternatives out there, maybe you've got a 50% chance of it working? So the 'real' price doubles on those alternatives. People do this kind of risk mitigation in their head all the time. When I say 'working' - i'm talking about the reviews of the alternatives that almost always talk about how hard it is to download the software and get them working, there's always some snag.

tyingq 10y ago

Has OrangePi fixed their issues with overheating?

trome 10y ago
Yeah, its just a voltage/clockspeed setting that was easily remedied in software.