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I honestly have never seen that evidence. I've heard it used as an excuse the last 40 years to lower high income taxes though. Any sources/links/examples?

by croon 10y ago

leereeves 10y ago
You haven't heard about the hundreds of billions of dollars companies like Apple and IBM are holding overseas, or the number of companies that have invested in operations in (for example) Ireland? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/ireland-attracts-soaring-level-of-us-investment https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/ireland-attrac... > A major draw for US firms is Ireland’s low 12.5% corporation tax rate and numerous controversial tax breaks. The government has promised to phase out the latter. > The corporate tax rate, which remains a sacrosanct part of Irish industrial policy, has been so successful in wooing US investment that the country’s neighbours across the border want it too. The Northern Ireland assembly passed legislation this week allowing for corporation tax powers to be devolved, with politicians at Stormont aiming for a similar rate.
- croon 10y ago
  Oh, I have. I have however not seen any proof that it benefits the country other than employment (how are the salaries?). If you look at tax revenue as percent of GDP it's almost had a freefall [1], which could be okay if the GDP is high enough. In direct numbers however Ireland as of 2014 was not even back to 2007 levels in tax revenue (pre economic crisis) [2], and ignoring inflation. And only counting corporation tax, not even back to 2002 levels. [1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=IE http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locati... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Yearly_returns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republi...
  - leereeves 10y ago
    We should separate the arguments "lower taxes benefit the economy" from "lower taxes increase tax revenue". Both of your observations address the latter, while I made the former.
    - croon 10y ago
      You're right, they're two different arguments. But I don't think it's a far leap looking between different countries to say that good infrastructure, healthcare, welfare and through sensible regulations an empowered workforce is also good for the economy. Looking straight at GDP (even if it's a blunt instrument), Ireland hasn't reaped a lot of rewards there either [1]. [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp
      - leereeves 10y ago
        Ireland was hit hard by the financial crisis; change the time scale on the graph to MAX to see the rewards Ireland reaped before that. And their growth over the past few years appears to be back to pre-crisis speed.
        croon 10y ago
        They started lowering the corporate tax in 1995, so if you look at the graph from 1995 to now and compare it to the US graph from 1995 to now, the curves are nearly identical, only the US is much less fluctuating.
        leereeves 10y ago
        If by nearly identical, you mean growing twice as quickly. That page allows displaying both on the same graph (compare to "US GDP") and when placed by side by side it's easy to see that Ireland has grown at least twice as quickly since 1995.

I honestly have never seen that evidence. I've heard it used as an excuse the last 40 years to lower high income taxes though. Any sources/links/examples?

by croon 10y ago

I honestly have never seen that evidence. I've heard it used as an excuse the last 40 years to lower high income taxes though. Any sources/links/examples?

leereeves 10y ago

You haven't heard about the hundreds of billions of dollars companies like Apple and IBM are holding overseas, or the number of companies that have invested in operations in (for example) Ireland? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/ireland-attracts-soaring-level-of-us-investment https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/05/ireland-attrac... > A major draw for US firms is Ireland’s low 12.5% corporation tax rate and numerous controversial tax breaks. The government has promised to phase out the latter. > The corporate tax rate, which remains a sacrosanct part of Irish industrial policy, has been so successful in wooing US investment that the country’s neighbours across the border want it too. The Northern Ireland assembly passed legislation this week allowing for corporation tax powers to be devolved, with politicians at Stormont aiming for a similar rate.

croon 10y ago
Oh, I have. I have however not seen any proof that it benefits the country other than employment (how are the salaries?). If you look at tax revenue as percent of GDP it's almost had a freefall [1], which could be okay if the GDP is high enough. In direct numbers however Ireland as of 2014 was not even back to 2007 levels in tax revenue (pre economic crisis) [2], and ignoring inflation. And only counting corporation tax, not even back to 2002 levels. [1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=IE http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.TAX.TOTL.GD.ZS?locati... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Yearly_returns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republi...
- leereeves 10y ago
  We should separate the arguments "lower taxes benefit the economy" from "lower taxes increase tax revenue". Both of your observations address the latter, while I made the former.
  - croon 10y ago
    You're right, they're two different arguments. But I don't think it's a far leap looking between different countries to say that good infrastructure, healthcare, welfare and through sensible regulations an empowered workforce is also good for the economy. Looking straight at GDP (even if it's a blunt instrument), Ireland hasn't reaped a lot of rewards there either [1]. [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp
    - leereeves 10y ago
      Ireland was hit hard by the financial crisis; change the time scale on the graph to MAX to see the rewards Ireland reaped before that. And their growth over the past few years appears to be back to pre-crisis speed.
      - croon 10y ago
        They started lowering the corporate tax in 1995, so if you look at the graph from 1995 to now and compare it to the US graph from 1995 to now, the curves are nearly identical, only the US is much less fluctuating.
        leereeves 10y ago
        If by nearly identical, you mean growing twice as quickly. That page allows displaying both on the same graph (compare to "US GDP") and when placed by side by side it's easy to see that Ireland has grown at least twice as quickly since 1995.