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Linus has made demeaning, sexist remarks to a woman to lower her self-worth and value, in a way worse than (or even similar to) "whiny little bitch" ? Please pr

Linus has made demeaning, sexist remarks to a woman to lower her self-worth and value, in a way worse than (or even similar to) "whiny little bitch" ? Please provide sources, I'm genuinely interested.

gaius 10y ago
You really need a link to Torvalds abusing people? Here's kernel dev Sarah Sharp https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-torvalds-defends-his-right-to-shame-linux-kernel-developers/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus...
- tanderson92 10y ago
  Sorry, that doesn't prove what you claimed. In fact every piece of evidence appears to be him yelling at males. (And I'm also not sympathetic to Sarah here given the clearly joking nature of Linus' reply about Greg -- notice how others took it. See also http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137391528412980&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137391528412980&w=2 See also one of the supposed receivers of abuse on the supposed abuse: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137401130111098&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137401130111098&w=2 Here's another supposed victim on the "abuse": http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137410815810454&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137410815810454&w=2 Notably: " If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant mode, then I'm all on your side.")
  - gaius 10y ago
    Let me just see if I understand your position - verbal abuse is acceptable so long as both the speaker and the target identify as the same gender?
    - tanderson92 10y ago
      I said: "Linus has made demeaning, sexist remarks to a woman to lower her self-worth and value, in a way worse than (or even similar to) "whiny little bitch" ? Please provide sources, I'm genuinely interested." And you responded: "You really need a link to Torvalds abusing people? Here's kernel dev Sarah Sharp https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus..." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus... But you did not actually present evidence of the claim. That it comes from (a female) Sarah Sharp doesn't add anything to your position. On the other hand, in my GP comment i include direct sources to supposed receivers of abuse that Sarah is referencing. The supposed receivers comment that they do not consider it abuse and find the language helpful and productive. See the difference? I provided relevant evidence and your link did not address the claim.
      - gaius 10y ago
        You're asserting that some abuse is OK, praiseworthy even, and some is not, and positioning yourself to make that judgement on behalf of the community . I'm asserting that none is. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
        tanderson92 10y ago
        I am not asserting that at all! I'm saying two things and two things only: 1) you did not show any evidence of abuse directed towards women, as first claimed. 2) the supposed victims of Linus' abuse claim they were not abused. Who is Sarah to decide for them that they were abused?
- arthur_pryor 10y ago
  i'm not defending linus' management style, but it is a significantly worse crime in my book to be sexist/racist abusive or a sexual harasser than it is to be a garden variety verbally abusive boss who is abusive solely based on and in relation to the quality of work performed. i suspect many others feel similarly.
  - Joo2eiyu 10y ago
    To judge the seriousness of a crime based on the victims gender is sexist. There is no garden variety abuse, and if there were than it means we have accepted abuse as normal as long the victim is not of the protected gender.
    - bohn8EeY 10y ago
      A nice example of why some opinions are safe to express on HN and others aren't. Disagreement on "significantly worse crime to be sexist/racist abusiver than it is to be a garden variety verbally abuser" is not welcome.

gaius 10y ago

You really need a link to Torvalds abusing people? Here's kernel dev Sarah Sharp https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus-torvalds-defends-his-right-to-shame-linux-kernel-developers/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus...

tanderson92 10y ago
Sorry, that doesn't prove what you claimed. In fact every piece of evidence appears to be him yelling at males. (And I'm also not sympathetic to Sarah here given the clearly joking nature of Linus' reply about Greg -- notice how others took it. See also http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137391528412980&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137391528412980&w=2 See also one of the supposed receivers of abuse on the supposed abuse: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137401130111098&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137401130111098&w=2 Here's another supposed victim on the "abuse": http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137410815810454&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=137410815810454&w=2 Notably: " If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant mode, then I'm all on your side.")
- gaius 10y ago
  Let me just see if I understand your position - verbal abuse is acceptable so long as both the speaker and the target identify as the same gender?
  - tanderson92 10y ago
    I said: "Linus has made demeaning, sexist remarks to a woman to lower her self-worth and value, in a way worse than (or even similar to) "whiny little bitch" ? Please provide sources, I'm genuinely interested." And you responded: "You really need a link to Torvalds abusing people? Here's kernel dev Sarah Sharp https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus..." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/linus... But you did not actually present evidence of the claim. That it comes from (a female) Sarah Sharp doesn't add anything to your position. On the other hand, in my GP comment i include direct sources to supposed receivers of abuse that Sarah is referencing. The supposed receivers comment that they do not consider it abuse and find the language helpful and productive. See the difference? I provided relevant evidence and your link did not address the claim.
    - gaius 10y ago
      You're asserting that some abuse is OK, praiseworthy even, and some is not, and positioning yourself to make that judgement on behalf of the community . I'm asserting that none is. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
      - tanderson92 10y ago
        I am not asserting that at all! I'm saying two things and two things only: 1) you did not show any evidence of abuse directed towards women, as first claimed. 2) the supposed victims of Linus' abuse claim they were not abused. Who is Sarah to decide for them that they were abused?
arthur_pryor 10y ago
i'm not defending linus' management style, but it is a significantly worse crime in my book to be sexist/racist abusive or a sexual harasser than it is to be a garden variety verbally abusive boss who is abusive solely based on and in relation to the quality of work performed. i suspect many others feel similarly.
- Joo2eiyu 10y ago
  To judge the seriousness of a crime based on the victims gender is sexist. There is no garden variety abuse, and if there were than it means we have accepted abuse as normal as long the victim is not of the protected gender.
  - bohn8EeY 10y ago
    A nice example of why some opinions are safe to express on HN and others aren't. Disagreement on "significantly worse crime to be sexist/racist abusiver than it is to be a garden variety verbally abuser" is not welcome.