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>He told his entire team, "Tell me how much money you want. I will tell you what you need to accomplish to get it." This is my dream manager. I've never had a

by dikdik 10y ago

>He told his entire team, "Tell me how much money you want. I will tell you what you need to accomplish to get it." This is my dream manager. I've never had a manager ask what they could do for me and actually mean it.

shostack 10y ago
Because often, despite their wishes, it just isn't realistic. For example, if you are a support employee the answer to what you need to do to earn more may very well be "get a new job because support is only valued at X and so we'll never be able to justify paying you more."
- mikekchar 10y ago
  That is literally what he would say. If someone would wander over and say, "I want $500K per year", he would tell them "Well, the CTO makes that. So you're going to have to get into management. The best way to do that is to do some technical work that makes you stand out and also show that you can do the management work. I'll give you a technical project to do and it will be up to you to make sure that it is successful. After that we can talk about what parts of my job I can hand over to you so that you can show that you are capable of doing them. Once you show that you are capable of doing everything that I do, I'll recommend you for a promotion. I warn you that you will probably have to put in a lot of unpaid overtime in the mean time." (Apologies to him if I have misrepresented his ideas -- taken from a discussion I had with him where I asked him exactly this). Anyway, he told me that many people often were quite happy with a lower salary expectation once they understood what was required of the higher salary expectation. Also "I'll tell you what you have to do" doesn't necessarily mean that the person will succeed. If you want the bigger salary you are going to have to choose the harder projects. So it might be "Take this failing project and turn it around. Hmm... yes I know it's a piece of crap legacy app that nobody else wants to touch. Find a way to make it work and I will find a way to get your raise." A lot of people will say, "Oh. No thanks. I'd rather work with the new shiny greenfield project. It's a lot easier and a lot more fun." His approach was to let people self select for their level of performance. And if someone took the gnarly legacy problem and failed miserably, then he would gently (?) suggest that they focus on easier problems until they have built up their skills.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Yep, and the other piece of this is the stress and expectations. At certain levels literally all that matters is results. To some extent a CEO doesn't care how the sausage gets made by a given team because he has people that are paid to worry about that. And so the actual "you need to do X, Y and Z" might not be specific things like "overhaul this legacy thingamajig" or something similar, but rather "find a way to grow revenue 20% YoY with a budget that is 10% lower than last year's." The other flip side is the risk--if you want to step up to the plate, at a certain level you need to understand that the stakes are such that if you fail, you likely need to leave or you'll be fired/asked to leave. Not everyone wants that level of responsibility or risk. In my job I oversee one of the biggest sources of spend in the company (ad spend) and am responsible for driving a large part of our growth. If I don't do my job well that has company-wide implications that are present in my mind literally every day. That's a level of ever-present stress that many people don't want.

by dikdik 10y ago

shostack 10y ago

Because often, despite their wishes, it just isn't realistic. For example, if you are a support employee the answer to what you need to do to earn more may very well be "get a new job because support is only valued at X and so we'll never be able to justify paying you more."

mikekchar 10y ago
That is literally what he would say. If someone would wander over and say, "I want $500K per year", he would tell them "Well, the CTO makes that. So you're going to have to get into management. The best way to do that is to do some technical work that makes you stand out and also show that you can do the management work. I'll give you a technical project to do and it will be up to you to make sure that it is successful. After that we can talk about what parts of my job I can hand over to you so that you can show that you are capable of doing them. Once you show that you are capable of doing everything that I do, I'll recommend you for a promotion. I warn you that you will probably have to put in a lot of unpaid overtime in the mean time." (Apologies to him if I have misrepresented his ideas -- taken from a discussion I had with him where I asked him exactly this). Anyway, he told me that many people often were quite happy with a lower salary expectation once they understood what was required of the higher salary expectation. Also "I'll tell you what you have to do" doesn't necessarily mean that the person will succeed. If you want the bigger salary you are going to have to choose the harder projects. So it might be "Take this failing project and turn it around. Hmm... yes I know it's a piece of crap legacy app that nobody else wants to touch. Find a way to make it work and I will find a way to get your raise." A lot of people will say, "Oh. No thanks. I'd rather work with the new shiny greenfield project. It's a lot easier and a lot more fun." His approach was to let people self select for their level of performance. And if someone took the gnarly legacy problem and failed miserably, then he would gently (?) suggest that they focus on easier problems until they have built up their skills.
- shostack 10y ago
  Yep, and the other piece of this is the stress and expectations. At certain levels literally all that matters is results. To some extent a CEO doesn't care how the sausage gets made by a given team because he has people that are paid to worry about that. And so the actual "you need to do X, Y and Z" might not be specific things like "overhaul this legacy thingamajig" or something similar, but rather "find a way to grow revenue 20% YoY with a budget that is 10% lower than last year's." The other flip side is the risk--if you want to step up to the plate, at a certain level you need to understand that the stakes are such that if you fail, you likely need to leave or you'll be fired/asked to leave. Not everyone wants that level of responsibility or risk. In my job I oversee one of the biggest sources of spend in the company (ad spend) and am responsible for driving a large part of our growth. If I don't do my job well that has company-wide implications that are present in my mind literally every day. That's a level of ever-present stress that many people don't want.