8 ms·

I think this is far from truth, never mind hard truth and your example is way off point. I would say there are actions which clearly don't need an indication fr

I think this is far from truth, never mind hard truth and your example is way off point. I would say there are actions which clearly don't need an indication from the aggrieved party to recognise as abuse, such as seriously telling someone to "quit being a whiny bitch" from a position of power, in front of a team, in the workplace. You don't need to be a mind reader to understand this is not acceptable behaviour. There are clearly cases in which attempting to stand up to abusive behaviour has the potential to cause more problems (at the very least in the short term) than by staying silent - it's no surprise this occurs in domestic situations. Can you not empathise with people who feel this way, that maybe there are good reasons to not express the discomfort?

mememachine 10y ago
>There are clearly cases in which attempting to stand up to abusive behaviour has the potential to cause more problems (at the very least in the short term) than by staying silent You seem to be confusing "standing up to abuse" and "indicating that behavior is abusive." The second is very risk-free and what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim. Again, it doesnt have to be verbal. But if youre making a special effort to hide it, I dont sympathize. In other words, if your "abuser" is reasonably unaware, for whatever reason, that you view their behavior as abusive, then you lose victim status. I want to go further with this. Just because youre uncomfortable, doesnt mean its unreasonable discomfort. Youre getting paid to WORK, which is by its nature uncomfortable. Often times "stop being a whiney bitch" is accurate (although obviously usually inappropriate.)
- xapata 10y ago
  You say people should indicate when behavior is inappropriate. Notice the disagreement and downvotes. That's telling you your behavior is inappropriate. Perhaps you should reconsider your position on the issue.
  - mememachine 10y ago
    So is your comment basically suggesting that I'm autistic? I'm fairly certain I have no respect for the people who are downvoting me. And when you suggest I should adjust my opinion because its unpopular, obviously no one has respect for you.
    - xapata 10y ago
      > autistic I wasn't suggesting that, but rather thinking through the logical consequences of your arguments. I don't like psychological labels, as I think personalities are too varied to form good clusters. > no respect An interesting stance. I suppose there's no benefit to further discussion.
      - mememachine 10y ago
        The "logical consequences" you've throught through dont come from my argument. They sound vaguely like my argument, but theyre not mine, and you know that. This is why I dont respect you, roughly.
        xapata 10y ago
        I'm somewhat amused by the fact that if we were workplace colleagues, I'd probably report this discussion to HR.
        mememachine 10y ago
        Ok.
        xapata 10y ago
        I'm gonna go ahead and get the last word in here. I've got the nagging suspension you're just trolling.
- josephlord 10y ago
  My problem with your comment is the entitlement you claim to define acceptable behaviour of those being abused "what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim". Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Letting a bully know that they are having an effect on you is far from risk free. You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass.
  - mememachine 10y ago
    >You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass. I do not believe this. >My problem with your comment is the entitlement you claim to define acceptable behaviour of those being abused "what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim". Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Well if they want my sympathy those are my standards, sorry. And by the way this: >Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Is not remotely true.
    - jakelazaroff 10y ago
      >>You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass. >I do not believe this. Let's take this further. If your coworker pulled you aside and punched you every day when you came into work, would you say they were justified as long as you didn't tell them you didn't want that to happen? If this person were your boss and you were afraid you'd be ostracized or fired if you spoke up, are you not a victim? At what point can we agree that behavior is worthy of condemnation without needing to explicitly be told that it's not okay?
    - josephlord 10y ago
      If that isn't what you believe you aren't clearly expressing what you do believe and what responsibilities people, particularly senior people do have. Most who come forward aren't asking for sympathy but reporting what has happened to them. What I would ask is for you to stand up if you witness inappropriate behaviour. Some may want the abuse recognised but they all wish they weren't victims. Going public is tough, main reasons to do it are to protect others by either changing the organisation or just waning likely victims away. You stating "Is not remotely true" does not a reasonable argument make, at least put some description behind your opposing thesis.

mememachine 10y ago

>There are clearly cases in which attempting to stand up to abusive behaviour has the potential to cause more problems (at the very least in the short term) than by staying silent You seem to be confusing "standing up to abuse" and "indicating that behavior is abusive." The second is very risk-free and what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim. Again, it doesnt have to be verbal. But if youre making a special effort to hide it, I dont sympathize. In other words, if your "abuser" is reasonably unaware, for whatever reason, that you view their behavior as abusive, then you lose victim status. I want to go further with this. Just because youre uncomfortable, doesnt mean its unreasonable discomfort. Youre getting paid to WORK, which is by its nature uncomfortable. Often times "stop being a whiney bitch" is accurate (although obviously usually inappropriate.)

xapata 10y ago
You say people should indicate when behavior is inappropriate. Notice the disagreement and downvotes. That's telling you your behavior is inappropriate. Perhaps you should reconsider your position on the issue.
- mememachine 10y ago
  So is your comment basically suggesting that I'm autistic? I'm fairly certain I have no respect for the people who are downvoting me. And when you suggest I should adjust my opinion because its unpopular, obviously no one has respect for you.
  - xapata 10y ago
    > autistic I wasn't suggesting that, but rather thinking through the logical consequences of your arguments. I don't like psychological labels, as I think personalities are too varied to form good clusters. > no respect An interesting stance. I suppose there's no benefit to further discussion.
    - mememachine 10y ago
      The "logical consequences" you've throught through dont come from my argument. They sound vaguely like my argument, but theyre not mine, and you know that. This is why I dont respect you, roughly.
      - xapata 10y ago
        I'm somewhat amused by the fact that if we were workplace colleagues, I'd probably report this discussion to HR.
        mememachine 10y ago
        Ok.
        xapata 10y ago
        I'm gonna go ahead and get the last word in here. I've got the nagging suspension you're just trolling.
josephlord 10y ago
My problem with your comment is the entitlement you claim to define acceptable behaviour of those being abused "what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim". Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Letting a bully know that they are having an effect on you is far from risk free. You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass.
- mememachine 10y ago
  >You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass. I do not believe this. >My problem with your comment is the entitlement you claim to define acceptable behaviour of those being abused "what I demand from anyone who wants to call themselves a victim". Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Well if they want my sympathy those are my standards, sorry. And by the way this: >Also people don't want to call themselves victims, they are victims who may feel able to make that known. Is not remotely true.
  - jakelazaroff 10y ago
    >>You also seem to believe that people have no responsibility for making people around them comfortable unless they are explicitly told it is making them uncomfortable. Everyone has a responsibility not to be ass. >I do not believe this. Let's take this further. If your coworker pulled you aside and punched you every day when you came into work, would you say they were justified as long as you didn't tell them you didn't want that to happen? If this person were your boss and you were afraid you'd be ostracized or fired if you spoke up, are you not a victim? At what point can we agree that behavior is worthy of condemnation without needing to explicitly be told that it's not okay?
  - josephlord 10y ago
    If that isn't what you believe you aren't clearly expressing what you do believe and what responsibilities people, particularly senior people do have. Most who come forward aren't asking for sympathy but reporting what has happened to them. What I would ask is for you to stand up if you witness inappropriate behaviour. Some may want the abuse recognised but they all wish they weren't victims. Going public is tough, main reasons to do it are to protect others by either changing the organisation or just waning likely victims away. You stating "Is not remotely true" does not a reasonable argument make, at least put some description behind your opposing thesis.