4 ms·

Two comments Future Amy's should always be prepared to start recording at a moment's notice. Think Roger Ailes If you ignore a verbal wrong said to someone e

Two comments Future Amy's should always be prepared to start recording at a moment's notice. Think Roger Ailes If you ignore a verbal wrong said to someone else and you don't say something, then it is like you said it yourself.

favorited 10y ago
> Future Amy's should always be prepared to start recording at a moment's notice It's not always that simple. California is a 2-party consent state. INAL, but my understanding is that a private conversation (in a non-public place) means all parties have an expectation of privacy, which makes recording that conversation without the consent of all parties a felony. Presumably, getting consent from your harasser to record their words and actions would be troublesome... Again, not a lawyer, but that's what I've come to understand as a CA resident.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Except that the offense seems to be a misdemeanor (max incarceration is not > 1 year), I think your description is correct.
- stale2002 10y ago
  What are they going to do? Sue you? This stuff is hard to prosecute. And if they start prosecuting... well... then their sexual harassment behavior will be made public.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Unfortunately, as but one option, yes. Assuming it gets to that. Your tape won't see the light of the courtroom because it'll be ruled inadmissible (fruits of the poisoned tree). It'll be sealed by the court over the felony hearing because it contains statements that could be materially damaging to be released (that the person said them is not in question, unfortunately, more their 'expectations', right or wrong, when they said them). Won't get out that way. Oops. They got leaked, overtly or covertly? During one of those trials? Look forward to contempt proceedings. After the trial, look forward to defamation proceedings.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      You don't leak it during the trial. You do it before any trial even happens, or before anyone even knows that you have the video. You just create your secret video, and then release it to the media. Then they COULD come after you later, but they almost certainly won't succeed. Recording crimes or sexual harassment pretty much never gets you in trouble. This whole court situation where sexual harassment never gets punished works both ways. Yes, it is difficult for these people to get punished. But it is equally difficult to punish people who retaliate against harassers. The courts aren't the point anyway. Sure you aren't going to win a court case. But uber would still fire the guy. At will employment. It doesn't matter if the secret video is illegal evidence. Uber can still fire the guy anyway, because they can fire people for any or no reason at all. And other companies can also refuse to hire him. Also, if the culprit is an uber exec, it is not like they could sue anyone. That would look extremely extremely bad if Uber started suing women who were harassed. There goes billions of dollars.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      It might not see the courtroom, but you can be damn sure it will see the front page of TechCrunch, The Verge, the New York Times, etc. I think public opinion backlash would be far too great for Uber to do anything about that but tuck their tail inbetween their legs and whimper away.
- wavefunction 10y ago
  You can record things like keeping a journal. "1/1/20 My manager made me feel uncomfortable again today by discussing swim-suits and his upcoming trip to X. I tried to leave the room but he closed the door and asked me if I liked to..." It doesn't have to be electronic in nature.
kelukelugames 10y ago
I've stood up for other people before and I can tell you that most of the time it doesn't lead to a happy ending.

favorited 10y ago

> Future Amy's should always be prepared to start recording at a moment's notice It's not always that simple. California is a 2-party consent state. INAL, but my understanding is that a private conversation (in a non-public place) means all parties have an expectation of privacy, which makes recording that conversation without the consent of all parties a felony. Presumably, getting consent from your harasser to record their words and actions would be troublesome... Again, not a lawyer, but that's what I've come to understand as a CA resident.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Except that the offense seems to be a misdemeanor (max incarceration is not > 1 year), I think your description is correct.
stale2002 10y ago
What are they going to do? Sue you? This stuff is hard to prosecute. And if they start prosecuting... well... then their sexual harassment behavior will be made public.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Unfortunately, as but one option, yes. Assuming it gets to that. Your tape won't see the light of the courtroom because it'll be ruled inadmissible (fruits of the poisoned tree). It'll be sealed by the court over the felony hearing because it contains statements that could be materially damaging to be released (that the person said them is not in question, unfortunately, more their 'expectations', right or wrong, when they said them). Won't get out that way. Oops. They got leaked, overtly or covertly? During one of those trials? Look forward to contempt proceedings. After the trial, look forward to defamation proceedings.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    You don't leak it during the trial. You do it before any trial even happens, or before anyone even knows that you have the video. You just create your secret video, and then release it to the media. Then they COULD come after you later, but they almost certainly won't succeed. Recording crimes or sexual harassment pretty much never gets you in trouble. This whole court situation where sexual harassment never gets punished works both ways. Yes, it is difficult for these people to get punished. But it is equally difficult to punish people who retaliate against harassers. The courts aren't the point anyway. Sure you aren't going to win a court case. But uber would still fire the guy. At will employment. It doesn't matter if the secret video is illegal evidence. Uber can still fire the guy anyway, because they can fire people for any or no reason at all. And other companies can also refuse to hire him. Also, if the culprit is an uber exec, it is not like they could sue anyone. That would look extremely extremely bad if Uber started suing women who were harassed. There goes billions of dollars.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    It might not see the courtroom, but you can be damn sure it will see the front page of TechCrunch, The Verge, the New York Times, etc. I think public opinion backlash would be far too great for Uber to do anything about that but tuck their tail inbetween their legs and whimper away.
wavefunction 10y ago
You can record things like keeping a journal. "1/1/20 My manager made me feel uncomfortable again today by discussing swim-suits and his upcoming trip to X. I tried to leave the room but he closed the door and asked me if I liked to..." It doesn't have to be electronic in nature.

kelukelugames 10y ago

I've stood up for other people before and I can tell you that most of the time it doesn't lead to a happy ending.