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But why do we want to identify visa overstayers who are leaving the country? That doesn't do us any good. You could argue that we're doing it to prohibit them

But why do we want to identify visa overstayers who are leaving the country? That doesn't do us any good. You could argue that we're doing it to prohibit them from re-entering, but the vast majority of our illegal immigration are people who come here with no intention of leaving and thus will never be found on a jet bridge. Likewise, it obviously won't do much for terrorism prevention, because those people tend to leave the country contemporaneously with leaving the earth. It seems to me that there are far more compelling reasons to implement exit controls if you have other, less savory motives.

larrysalibra 10y ago
It is with the hope that the penalties from getting caught will encourage people to comply with the limit of stay terms of their visa. I've lived outside of the USA for most of my adult life and from the people I've interacted with, anecdotally, the threat that if they overstay their visa they'll be fined <insert large number here> per day and be denied a visa & entry in the future seems to motivate people to comply with the terms of their visa.
- tsaoutourpants 10y ago
  Sure, but when you threaten fines against Jose from Guatemala who walked into this country with nothing more than what he carried on his back, and has been working a minimum wage job here for the last 10 years trying to support a family... you're accomplishing nothing. The bottom line is that if you have money, you can get yourself a valid visa, and if you don't, a fine won't exactly be effective.
pdabbadabba 10y ago
If GP is correct, I would think that the point is not to detect departures by people who have overstayed but to more reliably detect all departures, so we can more accurately figure out who has not departed, but should have.
- tsaoutourpants 10y ago
  But that's just silly, given that you can easily leave the country by walking across the border. Even if they implement this for every international plane departure, the data will still be massively incomplete.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    >you can easily leave the country by walking across the border which is of course illegal...
    - a3n 10y ago
      Walk up to the checkpoint, do the security thing, and keep walking. Easy peasy.
      - cpncrunch 10y ago
        Of course, but the parent comment didn't say that. If they're going to implement this, obviously they're going to implement it at every border crossing for it to be of any use whatsoever...
        a3n 10y ago
        The parent comment also didn't not say that. You could as easily say, being exactly non-specific as that comment, that it's illegal to fly across the border. Because it is, if you don't go through procedures on both ends.
    - tsaoutourpants 10y ago
      I don't know where you got the idea that it is illegal to leave the country on foot, but you are mistaken.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
rdtsc 10y ago
> but the vast majority of our illegal immigration are people who come here with no intention of leaving That's the intention but unless they brought all their family over they'd probably find a need to leave at some point. So preventing re-entry is a plausible cause. > obviously won't do much for terrorism prevention, because those people tend to leave the country contemporaneously with leaving the earth. Unless their plot fails and they are trying to escape and regroup. Now how many of those failed plots that we were about to catch them but they escaped have we solved recently. I can't think of any. Working with the government for a bit, I would say when stuff like this comes about, the reasons are usually more more about money. Something like a a company lobbied to get a large hundred million dollar contract to implement this. And it just happens that the head of DHS is first cousin with the CEO of said company.
- trustfundbaby 10y ago
  > That's the intention but unless they brought all their family over they'd probably find a need to leave at some point With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. If you overstay a visa, you're going to stay in the country no matter what. I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. Especially once you realize you can get married and have children who are citizens. This is why amnesty is a huge deal for lots of folks.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    > With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. If you overstay a visa, you're going to stay in the country no matter what. How is overstaying a visa a necessary requirement for staying in the country no matter what. Some people might just make mistakes and come clean and explain what they did. Some might hope to get lucky. Maybe some are extra sneaky and want to borrow a passport from one of their cousins (but that biometrics checks though it making it tricky these days). > I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. So they snuck in on a tourist visa, lied about the purpose and then never left missing their mother's or father's funeral even? > This is why amnesty is a huge deal for lots of folks. You think this very common and now after they snuck in they want amnesty? Well I can certainly see that. But I can also see why a lot of Americans might not want to give them amnesty as well. Last year 2.5M people were deported that will probably continue. > I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. Well tell your folks to stay put and especially stay away from anywhere near a border. People have been deported just by boarding an inter-city bus. Because it was stopped and searched by immigration officers.
Kalium 10y ago
There's the consequences that might scare others into not overstaying. You may also be able to gain information from them that you could use to find others who aren't physically leaving the country. It's of course completely possible that there are unsavory and foul motives at work. It's also possible that there are things other than mass human rights violations that such a system might be useful for.
2_listerine_pls 10y ago
> But why do we want to identify visa overstayers who are leaving the country? Who said all of them were leaving the country?

larrysalibra 10y ago

It is with the hope that the penalties from getting caught will encourage people to comply with the limit of stay terms of their visa. I've lived outside of the USA for most of my adult life and from the people I've interacted with, anecdotally, the threat that if they overstay their visa they'll be fined <insert large number here> per day and be denied a visa & entry in the future seems to motivate people to comply with the terms of their visa.

tsaoutourpants 10y ago
Sure, but when you threaten fines against Jose from Guatemala who walked into this country with nothing more than what he carried on his back, and has been working a minimum wage job here for the last 10 years trying to support a family... you're accomplishing nothing. The bottom line is that if you have money, you can get yourself a valid visa, and if you don't, a fine won't exactly be effective.

pdabbadabba 10y ago

If GP is correct, I would think that the point is not to detect departures by people who have overstayed but to more reliably detect all departures, so we can more accurately figure out who has not departed, but should have.

tsaoutourpants 10y ago
But that's just silly, given that you can easily leave the country by walking across the border. Even if they implement this for every international plane departure, the data will still be massively incomplete.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  >you can easily leave the country by walking across the border which is of course illegal...
  - a3n 10y ago
    Walk up to the checkpoint, do the security thing, and keep walking. Easy peasy.
    - cpncrunch 10y ago
      Of course, but the parent comment didn't say that. If they're going to implement this, obviously they're going to implement it at every border crossing for it to be of any use whatsoever...
      - a3n 10y ago
        The parent comment also didn't not say that. You could as easily say, being exactly non-specific as that comment, that it's illegal to fly across the border. Because it is, if you don't go through procedures on both ends.
  - tsaoutourpants 10y ago
    I don't know where you got the idea that it is illegal to leave the country on foot, but you are mistaken.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

rdtsc 10y ago

> but the vast majority of our illegal immigration are people who come here with no intention of leaving That's the intention but unless they brought all their family over they'd probably find a need to leave at some point. So preventing re-entry is a plausible cause. > obviously won't do much for terrorism prevention, because those people tend to leave the country contemporaneously with leaving the earth. Unless their plot fails and they are trying to escape and regroup. Now how many of those failed plots that we were about to catch them but they escaped have we solved recently. I can't think of any. Working with the government for a bit, I would say when stuff like this comes about, the reasons are usually more more about money. Something like a a company lobbied to get a large hundred million dollar contract to implement this. And it just happens that the head of DHS is first cousin with the CEO of said company.

trustfundbaby 10y ago
> That's the intention but unless they brought all their family over they'd probably find a need to leave at some point With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. If you overstay a visa, you're going to stay in the country no matter what. I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. Especially once you realize you can get married and have children who are citizens. This is why amnesty is a huge deal for lots of folks.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. If you overstay a visa, you're going to stay in the country no matter what. How is overstaying a visa a necessary requirement for staying in the country no matter what. Some people might just make mistakes and come clean and explain what they did. Some might hope to get lucky. Maybe some are extra sneaky and want to borrow a passport from one of their cousins (but that biometrics checks though it making it tricky these days). > I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. So they snuck in on a tourist visa, lied about the purpose and then never left missing their mother's or father's funeral even? > This is why amnesty is a huge deal for lots of folks. You think this very common and now after they snuck in they want amnesty? Well I can certainly see that. But I can also see why a lot of Americans might not want to give them amnesty as well. Last year 2.5M people were deported that will probably continue. > I know folks who have missed family funerals because of that. Well tell your folks to stay put and especially stay away from anywhere near a border. People have been deported just by boarding an inter-city bus. Because it was stopped and searched by immigration officers.

Kalium 10y ago

There's the consequences that might scare others into not overstaying. You may also be able to gain information from them that you could use to find others who aren't physically leaving the country. It's of course completely possible that there are unsavory and foul motives at work. It's also possible that there are things other than mass human rights violations that such a system might be useful for.

2_listerine_pls 10y ago

> But why do we want to identify visa overstayers who are leaving the country? Who said all of them were leaving the country?