4 ms·

Please tell me what is "vile" about saying "I believe Susan, but this blogpost strains credibility. If the author is being honest, I hope she speaks to an atto

by mjolk 10y ago

Please tell me what is "vile" about saying "I believe Susan, but this blogpost strains credibility. If the author is being honest, I hope she speaks to an attorney".

jellicle 10y ago
So what company do you work for?
- chickenfries 10y ago
  Agreed, they should stand behind their words.
- mjolk 10y ago
  My own. I'm not making claims of a sexist, racist, and hostile environment in a company, so for what it's worth, where I work isn't relevant.
  - chickenfries 10y ago
    Clearly you understand the possible risks to putting your real name behind your words, regardless of their veracity. Medium isn't a court of law, they don't owe anyone any evidence and you pointing out that there isn't any is implying that they have a reason to hide their name that isn't justified.
    - mjolk 10y ago
      > Medium isn't a court of law, they don't owe anyone any evidence and you pointing out that there isn't any is implying that they have a reason to hide their name that isn't justified. You're right. And I don't have to trust what I read on Medium -- what I'm suggesting is that I don't believe _this particular anonymous author_ (and to be careful, I'm entirely willing to believe a culture of unacceptable behavior exists at Uber).
      - chickenfries 10y ago
        Very well, since you refuse to stand behind your words I assume you are an Uber shill, perhaps Travis himself, trying to cast dispersion on a story.
  - ifdefdebug 10y ago
    Well, you made a call for someone to deanonymize herself yet you are not willing to deanonymize yourself on that account, perhaps because you feel that it might hurt your reputation not because you are wrong, but just because the internet is the shitty place it is...
    - mjolk 10y ago
      > Well, you made a call for someone to deanonymize herself yet you are not willing to deanonymize yourself on that account, Whoa. I did no such thing. I stated that I don't believe this anonymous account. The author specifically _should not_ unmask herself at this point without speaking with a lawyer. > perhaps because you feel that it might hurt your reputation not because you are wrong, but just because the internet is the shitty place it is... This is accurate. Someone has requested that I make myself open to "doxxing" so he/she can boycott my products, even though he/she didn't understand my perspective on this.
ubercore 10y ago
> My default is "show me the evidence", but I believe Susan Fowler's account because she put her reputation on the line and I was willing to trust that she left, opposed to got fired, due to non-performance reasons based on being able to somewhat approximate/confirm her technical abilities. ... is a privileged viewpoint, and offensive to me. The author doesn't have to prove to your satisfaction that this happened to her to write this article.
- dongslol 10y ago
  Wanting evidence is privileged? Is everything but complete credulity now considered "privileged?" She doesn't have to, but putting it that way, people don't have to believe her. Has the word "privileged" so lost all meaning that it's privileged to merely want evidence? I reject that I'm somehow contributing to an oppressive patriarchy by wanting claims to be substantiated in the post-Enlightenment way: with proof. People do make things up.
  - ubercore 10y ago
    It's pretty typical male privilege to enter this discussion to say "Nope, don't believe it, because it sounds unreasonable to me". It has a chilling effect. There's obviously no way to be sure of the story, but the speed with which people just presume it's fake speaks the overall lack of understanding of sexual harassment in the workplace. It's willfully ignorant to make that the basis for a discussion on this article.
    - dongslol 10y ago
      As it happens, I disagree with mjolk on this, in that I'm inclined from my experience to find Amy's story pretty believable. However, HN has lost its mind if merely saying you don't believe a story is now flag-worthy. Why should the odiousness of a claim influence our evaluation of whether or not it's true?
      - ubercore 10y ago
        Fair point. I think discussion is the best response. TBH, I don't really understand the HN flag system, so I can't comment very much on it.

by mjolk 10y ago

Please tell me what is "vile" about saying "I believe Susan, but this blogpost strains credibility. If the author is being honest, I hope she speaks to an attorney".

jellicle 10y ago

So what company do you work for?

chickenfries 10y ago
Agreed, they should stand behind their words.
mjolk 10y ago
My own. I'm not making claims of a sexist, racist, and hostile environment in a company, so for what it's worth, where I work isn't relevant.
- chickenfries 10y ago
  Clearly you understand the possible risks to putting your real name behind your words, regardless of their veracity. Medium isn't a court of law, they don't owe anyone any evidence and you pointing out that there isn't any is implying that they have a reason to hide their name that isn't justified.
  - mjolk 10y ago
    > Medium isn't a court of law, they don't owe anyone any evidence and you pointing out that there isn't any is implying that they have a reason to hide their name that isn't justified. You're right. And I don't have to trust what I read on Medium -- what I'm suggesting is that I don't believe _this particular anonymous author_ (and to be careful, I'm entirely willing to believe a culture of unacceptable behavior exists at Uber).
    - chickenfries 10y ago
      Very well, since you refuse to stand behind your words I assume you are an Uber shill, perhaps Travis himself, trying to cast dispersion on a story.
- ifdefdebug 10y ago
  Well, you made a call for someone to deanonymize herself yet you are not willing to deanonymize yourself on that account, perhaps because you feel that it might hurt your reputation not because you are wrong, but just because the internet is the shitty place it is...
  - mjolk 10y ago
    > Well, you made a call for someone to deanonymize herself yet you are not willing to deanonymize yourself on that account, Whoa. I did no such thing. I stated that I don't believe this anonymous account. The author specifically _should not_ unmask herself at this point without speaking with a lawyer. > perhaps because you feel that it might hurt your reputation not because you are wrong, but just because the internet is the shitty place it is... This is accurate. Someone has requested that I make myself open to "doxxing" so he/she can boycott my products, even though he/she didn't understand my perspective on this.

ubercore 10y ago

> My default is "show me the evidence", but I believe Susan Fowler's account because she put her reputation on the line and I was willing to trust that she left, opposed to got fired, due to non-performance reasons based on being able to somewhat approximate/confirm her technical abilities. ... is a privileged viewpoint, and offensive to me. The author doesn't have to prove to your satisfaction that this happened to her to write this article.

dongslol 10y ago
Wanting evidence is privileged? Is everything but complete credulity now considered "privileged?" She doesn't have to, but putting it that way, people don't have to believe her. Has the word "privileged" so lost all meaning that it's privileged to merely want evidence? I reject that I'm somehow contributing to an oppressive patriarchy by wanting claims to be substantiated in the post-Enlightenment way: with proof. People do make things up.
- ubercore 10y ago
  It's pretty typical male privilege to enter this discussion to say "Nope, don't believe it, because it sounds unreasonable to me". It has a chilling effect. There's obviously no way to be sure of the story, but the speed with which people just presume it's fake speaks the overall lack of understanding of sexual harassment in the workplace. It's willfully ignorant to make that the basis for a discussion on this article.
  - dongslol 10y ago
    As it happens, I disagree with mjolk on this, in that I'm inclined from my experience to find Amy's story pretty believable. However, HN has lost its mind if merely saying you don't believe a story is now flag-worthy. Why should the odiousness of a claim influence our evaluation of whether or not it's true?
    - ubercore 10y ago
      Fair point. I think discussion is the best response. TBH, I don't really understand the HN flag system, so I can't comment very much on it.