4 ms·

A lesson in "Tone is everything" perhaps? You make excellent points and taught me a bunch (thanks!), but just because the author admits he doesn't understand ha

A lesson in "Tone is everything" perhaps? You make excellent points and taught me a bunch (thanks!), but just because the author admits he doesn't understand hash tables inside and out does not make calling his work "amateurish" or "clowntown" okay.

ot 10y ago
If you read carefully you'll see that "clowntown" referred to GCC's implementation of std::hash, not the post. I think it's natural to have high standards for GCC. I don't think my tone was too aggressive, maybe made exception for the word "amateurish"? I explained above what I meant, if you replace that word with a better one does it change the tone of the post?
- astine 10y ago
  "if you replace that word with a better one does it change the tone of the post?" Yes, it does. 'Amateurish' is often used as an insult to imply that someone needn't have tried at all. If you replaced it with 'novice,' I think people would have understood your meaning without taking offense.
  - ot 10y ago
    I see. I didn't know "amateurish" had such negative connotations. Unfortunately HN doesn't let me edit the post anymore.
    - q3r3qr3q 10y ago
      Your tone was fine. Don't pander to these people, please.
      - mamp 10y ago
        For a post on HN the tone was ok but not great, if one of my team spoke like that in a meeting I would commend them on their technical knowledge but remind them that their effectiveness and influence depends more on tone than technical skill, because people.
      - dang 10y ago
        ot was being a gentleman, not pandering. It's unfortunate that the subthread went off topic but the reasons are understandable and the disagreement resolved nicely. Please don't be rude in comments here.
    - notJim 10y ago
      Since we're on the subject, reading the "clowntown" thing makes Facebook's tech culture sound kinda toxic. It's one thing to criticize a bad implementation, and a different thing to call the implementer a clown.
      - ot 10y ago
        I might have given the wrong impression, see my other comment below. "Clowntown" is almost always directed at ourselves, in a self-mocking, playful way. Also see answers to this Quora question: https://www.quora.com/When-people-who-work-at-Facebook-say-clowntown-what-do-they-mean https://www.quora.com/When-people-who-work-at-Facebook-say-c... > It's a way to bring much-needed levity to the process of solving hard problems. > It's a playful, tongue-in-cheek, self-deprecating term to describe a situation in a company whose motto was "move fast and break things."
        notJim 10y ago
        Ahh, that does sound better.
hubert123 10y ago
Stop policing people's words, what about your tone in all this? "here is a lesson in tone for you" is not exactly nice tone either but since you are the police it doesnt matter right?
- dang 10y ago
  If you continue to post uncivil comments to HN, we will ban your account. We've asked you many times before to stop.
dang 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13746260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13746260 and marked it off-topic.

ot 10y ago

If you read carefully you'll see that "clowntown" referred to GCC's implementation of std::hash, not the post. I think it's natural to have high standards for GCC. I don't think my tone was too aggressive, maybe made exception for the word "amateurish"? I explained above what I meant, if you replace that word with a better one does it change the tone of the post?

astine 10y ago
"if you replace that word with a better one does it change the tone of the post?" Yes, it does. 'Amateurish' is often used as an insult to imply that someone needn't have tried at all. If you replaced it with 'novice,' I think people would have understood your meaning without taking offense.
- ot 10y ago
  I see. I didn't know "amateurish" had such negative connotations. Unfortunately HN doesn't let me edit the post anymore.
  - q3r3qr3q 10y ago
    Your tone was fine. Don't pander to these people, please.
    - mamp 10y ago
      For a post on HN the tone was ok but not great, if one of my team spoke like that in a meeting I would commend them on their technical knowledge but remind them that their effectiveness and influence depends more on tone than technical skill, because people.
    - dang 10y ago
      ot was being a gentleman, not pandering. It's unfortunate that the subthread went off topic but the reasons are understandable and the disagreement resolved nicely. Please don't be rude in comments here.
  - notJim 10y ago
    Since we're on the subject, reading the "clowntown" thing makes Facebook's tech culture sound kinda toxic. It's one thing to criticize a bad implementation, and a different thing to call the implementer a clown.
    - ot 10y ago
      I might have given the wrong impression, see my other comment below. "Clowntown" is almost always directed at ourselves, in a self-mocking, playful way. Also see answers to this Quora question: https://www.quora.com/When-people-who-work-at-Facebook-say-clowntown-what-do-they-mean https://www.quora.com/When-people-who-work-at-Facebook-say-c... > It's a way to bring much-needed levity to the process of solving hard problems. > It's a playful, tongue-in-cheek, self-deprecating term to describe a situation in a company whose motto was "move fast and break things."
      - notJim 10y ago
        Ahh, that does sound better.

hubert123 10y ago

Stop policing people's words, what about your tone in all this? "here is a lesson in tone for you" is not exactly nice tone either but since you are the police it doesnt matter right?

dang 10y ago
If you continue to post uncivil comments to HN, we will ban your account. We've asked you many times before to stop.

dang 10y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13746260 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13746260 and marked it off-topic.