4 ms·

How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school)? Probably very few. It might be that the ki

How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school)? Probably very few. It might be that the kinds of states that legalized gay marriage - many of them liberal leaning - tend to also have a better social services infrastructure, which could cause a drop in teen suicide attempts. But that conclusion wouldn't have fit into the political narrative that the study's authors were clearly after. So while the data is real, for whatever reason this study focused on seeking out a specific political conclusion from it that is tenuously linked at best. I would like to see who funded this research.

st3v3r 10y ago
It's more than just marriage, though. Same sex marriage is seen as an acceptance thing as well. By seeing that they are treated like equals, and given the same rights, they'll feel more like they actually belong in society.
DanBC 10y ago
> How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school)? We don't know, but probably "some". We can say that a state that forbids gay marriage might have schools that are less inclusive of LGBT teens, and that a state that allows gay marriage might have schools that are more inclusive of LGBT teens; and we sort of know that inclusive schools are important to reduce thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts, and deaths by suicide. (Although more research is needed.) The CDC has some nice info, all sourced: https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/youth.htm https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/youth.htm You mentioned funding. That's described in the paper: > Funding/Support: Ms Raifman is supported by training grants T32AI102623 and R25MH083620 from the National Institutes of Health. Dr Austin is supported by training grants T71-MC-00009 and T76-MC-00001 from the Maternal and Child Health Bureau, Health Resources and Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services. > Role of the Funder/Sponsor: The funding sources played no role in the design and conduct of the study; collection, management, analysis, or interpretation of the data; preparation, review, or approval of the manuscript; and decision to submit the manuscript for publication.
- downandout 10y ago
  But you have somewhat reinforced my point. This study draws conclusions from results for which there may be many other causal factors. The fact that a given state legalized gay marriage says that the state's lawmakers, and presumably the people that elected them, are inclusive types of people. But the implied conclusion that this study came to - that if any state wants to reduce teen suicide, it should just enshrine gay marriage in state law - is not supported by the data upon which this study is based (at least not by itself). This gets downvotes whenever it is said on HN, but in this case...correlation most certainly does not imply causation.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > But the conclusion that this study came to - if any state wants to reduce teen suicide, just enshrine gay marriage in state law Is that the conclusion the study comes to? Or is that an assumption you've made based on the headline here and not having read the study?
rsynnott 10y ago
> How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school) Pretty much none, I would expect. However, legalising same-sex marriage indicates a degree of acceptance by gay people. I'm gay, and was born in 1985, in Ireland, which only formally legalised homosexuality in 1991. Employment discrimination against gay people only became illegal when I was 15 or so (thanks, EU), and we voted to legalise same-sex marriage when I was 29. As a kid, I felt that society was pretty bloody hostile to people like me, and I certainly did feel better when the employment discrimination law came in; I felt less like a second class citizen. Even though in practice it was rather rare for people to offend against this law, it signals certain societal attitudes. The marriage referendum came late enough that it didn't really affect my self-image, but it's certainly plausible that it did for younger people.

st3v3r 10y ago

It's more than just marriage, though. Same sex marriage is seen as an acceptance thing as well. By seeing that they are treated like equals, and given the same rights, they'll feel more like they actually belong in society.

DanBC 10y ago

> How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school)? We don't know, but probably "some". We can say that a state that forbids gay marriage might have schools that are less inclusive of LGBT teens, and that a state that allows gay marriage might have schools that are more inclusive of LGBT teens; and we sort of know that inclusive schools are important to reduce thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts, and deaths by suicide. (Although more research is needed.) The CDC has some nice info, all sourced: https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/youth.htm https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/youth.htm You mentioned funding. That's described in the paper: > Funding/Support: Ms Raifman is supported by training grants T32AI102623 and R25MH083620 from the National Institutes of Health. Dr Austin is supported by training grants T71-MC-00009 and T76-MC-00001 from the Maternal and Child Health Bureau, Health Resources and Services Administration, US Department of Health and Human Services. > Role of the Funder/Sponsor: The funding sources played no role in the design and conduct of the study; collection, management, analysis, or interpretation of the data; preparation, review, or approval of the manuscript; and decision to submit the manuscript for publication.

downandout 10y ago
But you have somewhat reinforced my point. This study draws conclusions from results for which there may be many other causal factors. The fact that a given state legalized gay marriage says that the state's lawmakers, and presumably the people that elected them, are inclusive types of people. But the implied conclusion that this study came to - that if any state wants to reduce teen suicide, it should just enshrine gay marriage in state law - is not supported by the data upon which this study is based (at least not by itself). This gets downvotes whenever it is said on HN, but in this case...correlation most certainly does not imply causation.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > But the conclusion that this study came to - if any state wants to reduce teen suicide, just enshrine gay marriage in state law Is that the conclusion the study comes to? Or is that an assumption you've made based on the headline here and not having read the study?

rsynnott 10y ago

> How many gay teens were trying to commit suicide because they weren't allowed to get married (while in high school) Pretty much none, I would expect. However, legalising same-sex marriage indicates a degree of acceptance by gay people. I'm gay, and was born in 1985, in Ireland, which only formally legalised homosexuality in 1991. Employment discrimination against gay people only became illegal when I was 15 or so (thanks, EU), and we voted to legalise same-sex marriage when I was 29. As a kid, I felt that society was pretty bloody hostile to people like me, and I certainly did feel better when the employment discrimination law came in; I felt less like a second class citizen. Even though in practice it was rather rare for people to offend against this law, it signals certain societal attitudes. The marriage referendum came late enough that it didn't really affect my self-image, but it's certainly plausible that it did for younger people.