13 ms·

My 2015 MacBook Pro Retina Exploded

372 points by zepolen 10y ago

josefdlange 10y ago
I get the whole "cautionary tale" thing, but you should probably contact Apple to remedy both your personal loss and so that they have more information about failing components. In my experience they take this stuff very seriously.
- eddieroger 10y ago
  Same. I had an issue with a failed charger many years ago, and in addition to getting a new charger, I was contacted by their product safety group for more information on how it was used to make it stronger in the future. Confirmed, they take product safety seriously. > In fact it could be happening to your battery right now. Yes, any lithium battery in any device could have this problem. Odds are good that it was swelling before it finally failed, and if the machine hadn't been restarted and instead had been checked, that may have been identified. Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    You can't just open a Mac though and have a look, they use proprietary screws and it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE!
    - detaro 10y ago
      > it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE! Then they really haven't been paying attention, batteries exploding is mentioned regularly in media, makes for very popular Youtube videos, ... It's understandable that people don't expect it happening to them (it's fairly unlikely).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - matclayton 10y ago
    I had the exact opposite experience, I went in to a store with a MacBook Pro (2013) which had morphed by a good 1-2cm's due to the battery expanding over the course of the previous hour. They refused to take it and insisted I book a genius appointment for the following week. After much insisting (30-40minutes) they finally agreed to take the battery and keep it in their safe for a week, until the first available genius appointment was available. There they said it was out of warranty as its a disposable part and therefore not covered by the AppleCare+ plan I had at the time. Genuinely it was the worst experience I've had in an apple store to date.
    - CalChris 10y ago
      You might have countered with I understand it isn't covered by AppleCare. I suppose we'll found out if it's covered by Apple liability.
      - pc86 10y ago
        But then we couldn't have snarky internet posts about how terrible Apple is!
        koolba 10y ago
        True but we'd get snarky internet posts about the cleverness of their in-house legal defense team.
        JBReefer 10y ago
        "most valuable company on Earth sues man whose testicles they burned off" is about the worst PR possible
    - eddieroger 10y ago
      It's unfortunate that this was the experience you had. I imagine whomever you talked to was under the impression that hardware can't be taken that isn't accepted as part of a Genius Bar appointment, and didn't know the severity of what could happen would the battery fail. A training failure on Apple's part. That said, my cousin took a similar era MacBook to the Apple Store for swelling, and was able to see a Genius that afternoon and got a battery swap.
  - tatoalo 10y ago
    >> If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed. Beautiful line here. > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? This.
    - soylentcola 10y ago
      I run across this all the time with (insert item that uses lithium batteries here). People ask "can't those things explode?!" Well, yeah, if it's got a lithium battery it can. That's why you buy batteries from reputable sources (or items with integrated batteries from reputable sources), don't charge them unattended, and be aware of anything getting warm or expanding.
      - gambiting 10y ago
        >>don't charge them unattended I really hope this is a joke, because I can't imagine having to watch over anything while charging it. I'm sure that almost everyone charges their phone and laptop when sleeping for instance.
        kpil 10y ago
        Unfortunately, no joke. Minimally, do not charge things in a bed or covered by a blanket.
      - laythea 10y ago
        That's ridiculous. My 2015 MacBook gets warm/hot as a matter of course during the normal use of software. How am I supposed to know whether it is a precursor to an explosion or just normal usage? Apparently there is no way to know, and it is a matter of luck whether your <insert lithium charged device here> explodes. As a society why are we selling these things (not just apple) that can explode during normal usage. If a car manufacturer had an equivalent such design, the manufacturer would recall and fix said problem for free. And yes, if there is no "fix" then they should not sell this technology at all. I suspect that the tech-industry lobbyists would not agree.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? There was a huge amount of attention, which included the things being banned on aircraft, for Samsung's fire-prone phones. Before that, it was "hoverboards." I think the answer is yes, it would.
    - ribosometronome 10y ago
      All popular devices will have a few that have this happen of the lifetime of the device. The Note 7 and hoverboards were exploding at a rate far higher than should be expected -- that was the news. For example, there was a video of an Inspiron exploding a few weeks ago that new made its way to HN (that I saw).
    - djsumdog 10y ago
      EgyptAir is investigating if a phone or tablet may have led to a crash of one of their jets: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/pilots-phone-tablet-batteries-may-have-caused-egyptair-crash/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/pilots-phone-tabl... There have been many devices that have come under scrutiny for their Li-Ion cells. At least few devices explode, and I'm not aware of any killing people, but many have had these meltdowns. Big Clive successfully took one apart without it going boomb if anyone is interested in what's inside of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1eRy0uBI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1eRy0uBI8
      - kakwa_ 10y ago
        A few aircraft incidents/accidents were caused by batteries. There is of course the 787 of All Nippon Airway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... And with battery as a cargo this time, there is a UPS 747: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 It's funny/terrifying how we deeply need higher capacity batteries, with shorter charging time and greater energy density, but as a same time, it will probably lead to more unstable and more "prone to burst into flames" items...
  - code_duck 10y ago
    I had a charger with cords that frayed quickly, but was slightly out of warranty. Not only were the people at the Apple store not concerned, they insisted it was entirely my fault, and were very rude to me. Then when I called and complained the manager said they'd give me a free replacement. Then, when I returned, it was a repeat of the first time - they blamed it on me, were not interested at all in my explanation of ow the charger was damaged, and were very rude.
  - doctorwho 10y ago
    > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? No, but then Apple often invites it by continuing to claim it's s#1t doesn't stink.
  - mgkimsal 10y ago
    > Confirmed, they take product safety seriously Technically all that really confirms is that they take the PR/image aspect of safety seriously. May have been more a CYA than anything else. Yes, cynical view, I know.
  - gnicholas 10y ago
    In 2016, I called Apple about a 2011 Macbook Air (purchased with AppleCare, expired in 2014) about its bulging battery. After a short conversation with a tier-2 support person, they agreed to replace the battery for free. They were also willing to replace the keyboard and bottom case, if there were any permanent deformations (there weren't). I took it in to my local Apple Store and they had it back to me in 48 hours. I'm sure this is a YMMV issue, so the best lesson is perhaps to call several times until you get a good answer.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  > In my experience they take this stuff very seriously. In my experience they tell you that your computer is at risk of catching on fire, but that they're not going to pay to replace your swelling battery.
  - bartvk 10y ago
    > but that they're not going to pay to replace your swelling battery I don't think that's strange. Here in N/W Europe, warranties are quite good. However warranty on consumables such as batteries is only 6 months.
- bradstewart 10y ago
  My fiancee's older Macbook Pro (non-unibody) had a battery swelling issue. The bottom cover of the computer popped off in the middle of the night from the swelling. We went to the Apple store, and were told "you charged this battery too many times, we will replace it for $99." The computer was about 5 years old at the time.
  - dkonofalski 10y ago
    That's an oversimplification. Macbooks tell you how many cycles the computer has left and give you a safety warning to have the battery serviced or replaced once you reach the 85% mark of usable cycles. You clearly ignored the service warning and/or the safety warning and continued to charge it. It wasn't a defective battery, it was the user ignoring (perhaps unintentionally) that their battery was no longer usable. Why should they replace it without charging for it?
- parasj 10y ago
  It used to be a mixed bag - it's good to hear that they've improved their attitude to battery issues. I remember taking a bulging in-warranty battery for a white unibody-era Macbook into the Valley Fair Apple Store and being told that it was my fault the battery was damaged. Genius bar wanted to charge for a battery swap and wouldn't dispose the battery for me if I didn't pay for the swap.
- dean 10y ago
  A few years back, I had a 6-year-old white uni-body MacBook with a swollen battery that was long out of warranty. I made an appointment at the Apple Store, and when I took it in, they took one look at the battery, gave me new battery and sent me on my way. They didn't even mention the word warranty. I was there for 5 minutes. I had zero expectations going in, so was quite happy and impressed with their response.
- runjake 10y ago
  They take it especially seriously when a story like this gains traction in the press. You get immediate escalation to the executive team.
- cmg 10y ago
  Agreed. In 2005, I worked for a company where there was an incident that led to the 2005 PowerBook G4/iBook G4 battery recall [0]. I worked on the IT helpdesk at the time, and though I wasn't working the late shift that night, we all found out about it the next morning. A woman called the helpdesk because her PowerBook had caught fire. (Side note: the department was very insistent on not having water/liquids near equipment, so she actually apologized for pouring water on her flaming laptop.) Thankfully she put it out immediately. Her desk was scorched and the laptop was burned beyond repair (but we did manage to get a DriveSavers-like company to recover most of the data on the HDD). The IT director called our Apple rep the next day and they immediately began a process of investigation. They paid to have the desk replaced, replaced the laptop and paid for the third-party data recovery. Granted this was 12 years ago and I wasn't involved in direct conversations with Apple myself as a lowly level 1 helpdesk technician, but from everything I saw they handled the situation completely professionally and seriously. The model number A1078 is forever etched into my mind. [0] https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2005/cpsc-apple-announce-recall-of-ibook-and-powerbook-computer-batteries https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2005/cpsc-apple-announce-recall...
DenisM 10y ago
Well, one more thing to worry about. Should I leave my MacBooks in the bathroom sink when going out?
- brandon272 10y ago
  I'm guessing your home is far more likely to burn down from other causes than from your Macbook. A Galaxy Note 7, on the other hand...
- admyral 10y ago
  If you're going to be worried about everything that has a small chance of failing and injuring you, I'm sorry to say you're currently living in a minefield. But statistically you'd be more likely to break your toe on the coffee table than your laptop exploding and burning down your house.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Breaking your toe on the coffee table, I'd say has a pretty high statistical chance.
  - DenisM 10y ago
    My toe will heal, the stakes are low. My house burning down on the other hand can have fatal consequences for my cat if I'm not at home.
    - admyral 10y ago
      Depending on where you live, house destroying disasters like earthquakes, floods, and storms have similarly fatal consequences but are statistically more likely to occur. My point is make reasonable preparations and insure any valuable belongings, but thinking about it too much doesn't make it any less likely its going to happen to you.
  - vojant 10y ago
    I broke my toe on the coffee table last year and in my old mbp battery swallowed - so it's not very comforting
John23832 10y ago
Given the debacle that was the Note 7 (which came from Samsung's obsession with thinness), I'm surprised we don't see more of these super thin devices catching fire. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt. Next-gen's MPB will be .5 inches slimmer.
- MikusR 10y ago
  It came from defective batteries not thinness.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    I thought the batteries didn't have the space they needed to expand?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - MikusR 10y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459764
  - John23832 10y ago
    The batteries expanded upon use, and due to the slimness of the phone, they had no room. This caused the conductive chemical layers within the batteries to leak through the porous separating layers, and the resulting reaction caused fires. To me, that has to do with slimness.
    - MikusR 10y ago
      So two independent companies (after testing many phones) came to conclusion that there were two different manufacturing defects in batteries used. But they were wrong and the problem was phones thinness. You should contact Samsung immediately.
evo_9 10y ago
Unsurprisingly even Apple laptops require ventilation; I thought it was common knowledge that you can easily destroy any laptop by running it on a soft, heat multiplying surface like a bedspread....
- Zak 10y ago
  Routinely blocking the air inlets and outlets on a laptop increases the probability that electronic components will fail over time, though most modern laptops have multiple forms over overheat protection and will throttle CPU speed or even shut down if they get too hot. I should note that all the airflow in a Macbook Pro is through the sides and rear, not the bottom, so setting it on a soft surface would not typically block the vents. The temperatures that start to increase failure rates for electronic components are far lower than those that trigger thermal runaway in Li-ion batteries. The least thermally stable Li-ion batteries, those with cobalt-based cathodes, are at risk of thermal runaway over 150C. I've never heard of poor cooling being the root cause of a laptop battery fire.
  - rubicon33 10y ago
    What then is the (likely) root cause of these laptop battery fires?
    - rsynnott 10y ago
      It's a lithium ion battery. Normal consumer ones have very low but non-zero catastrophic failure rates.
- mikeash 10y ago
  With modern technology, it's completely unacceptable for consumer electronics to catch fire when running it on a bedspread. It should shut itself down when it gets too hot. Worst case, it might break due to being too hot, but it should never catch fire.
  - raarts 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
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mynegation 10y ago
I do not know what happened, but given that bed is in the picture, it could happen that the laptop was put on a blanket or a pillow, which closed the air ducts. Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone. Um, they did. It's literally the very first sentence of the article. The guy decided to turn it back on, which is when it blew up.
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    I don't know about Macbooks, but my desktop PC will refuse to POST if temps are past the critical threshold.
    - dijit 10y ago
      That doesn't matter; most PCs and Macs (which are just PCs really) will flood the motherboard with power to wake everything up. Where is that power going to come from if not the battery? you can't have any logic without power.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        It ought to have a hard cutoff right at the battery involving only simple electronics, no software, which prevents it from providing the rest of the computer with any power if the battery is at an unsafe temperature.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        You can have a small battery or capacitor that powers a small circuit that performs overheating checks pre-boot.
awiesenhofer 10y ago
Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple, I remember having to exchange the battery from my white pre-unibody MacBook twice because it was swollen by over a centimeter. There was a recall even IIRC. Of course, back then you could swap it out yourself.
- stinos 10y ago
  Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple Exactly, happened to me as well like 6 years ago (which in combo with the magnetic power connector made me lose work more than once due to me continueing to use the macbook without bad battery followed by me/cats/wife tripping over the cable). Just searching for e.g. 'macbook swollen battery' gives quite some results.
- maaaats 10y ago
  >Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple It was even their business model with the iPods back in the days.
PascLeRasc 10y ago
Is there some way to tell if a battery is swelling using CoconutBattery? Like some sudden dropoff in capacity?
- always_learning 10y ago
  I'd like to know this too. I've got the same model as stated in the article. I'm weary now that it may cause a malfunction
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Not sure if there is, but if you click the Battery Info... button, it shows a popup with a field called Battery failure in addition to the normal OSX battery status.
BadassFractal 10y ago
Had a portable bluetooth speaker do the same to me while I was in the same room with it, it was simply charging, wasn't even being used. Also very fortunate to be able to extinguish it right on the spot before it set the apartment and consequently the building on fire. I've grown pretty skeptical of that sort of batteries after the fact, but there's not much you can do about it at this point since there's one in almost every device you can think of. It's like sitting on an explosive device that can go off anytime without any notice.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  Having higher power density is very convenient, but not exploding is a great characteristic of NiMH batteries. Charging mishaps can happen with those as well, but I've never heard of a cascade failure overtaking NiMH while just sitting there. I've had young programmers sneer at me about my continued use of NiMH AA and AAA batteries, but there are some advantages.
  - spronkey 10y ago
    I wouldn't give Lithium Ion-based stuff to kids to play with unsupervised. NiMH for the win.
hasbroslasher 10y ago
Didn't Samsung already patent this feature?
- devopsproject 10y ago
  They copied it from apple ;) http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more-exploding-iphones/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more-exploding-iphones/
  - DonHopkins 10y ago
    Actually the NeXT cube pioneered the prior art of computer hardware exploding into a inextinguishable conflagration of flames. Apple just refined and popularized the technology by making it much easier to ignite, without requiring additional peripherals like a MAP gas torch. https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html
ipsin 10y ago
If unseen swelling is a problem, couldn't you fix it with a simple sensor, like a fragile paper tape conductor that goes around the battery? It swells, the circuit goes dead, and that's the signal for the charger to stop charging.
- artursapek 10y ago
  Sort of like a fuse
- RKearney 10y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong but these incidents are sometimes triggered by charging, but never escalated by it. Once the layers of the cell make contact it shorts the entire battery and causes the battery to discharge quickly, releasing the energy in the form of heat. Just because you've removed the power source from the battery doesn't mean the battery won't stop discharging.
  - detaro 10y ago
    Batteries (can, not always) swell quite a while before they "go off", so detecting swelling would be a useful sign that something is wrong and to stop charging to not trigger it.
    - jononor 10y ago
      A pressure sensor between battery and its enclosure could be used. Or strain sensors on the pack itself. It should probably just disallow charging completely, as people have a tendency to ignore warnings.
  - dreish 10y ago
    I've had plenty of batteries swell, and none catch fire before I got them replaced, so I have to think it could help. In my experience Apple is not consistently good about dealing with this. In every case, I've ultimately been able to get the battery replaced at no cost to me, but with an iPhone 6 that started swelling about a year ago, pushing the screen out, phone support told me flatly that this wasn't something that could possibly happen with such a new device, and suggested that I try to make a Genius Bar appointment on my own. When I brought the phone into the store later that day, they replaced it on the spot, with no appointment. (I wasn't going to accept carrying around a time bomb for another week or more.)
busterarm 10y ago
The last time I took my 2015 rMBP on a flight with me, TSA saw my laptop on the scanner and the guy at the machine's eyes bugged out while he did a double take. They swabbed the crap out of my laptop, detected nothing and then let me through. I was confused and didn't understand why, but I wonder if maybe battery swelling is why.
- magic_beans 10y ago
  Aren't you supposed to put laptops "alone in its own tray"?
  - dpark 10y ago
    Sure. Where did he say he didn't do that?
  - freehunter 10y ago
    I've had some TSA folks tell me to do that and some say I can leave it in my bag.
  - alistairSH 10y ago
    US: Rule is non-thin laptops go in a separate tray. Tablets and super-thin laptops can stay in the bag. But, this is enforced inconsistently. Europe (UK, Ireland, Italy, and Iceland): Separate tray every time I've passed through in the last 4 years.
    - alasdair_ 10y ago
      I have a backpack where the sleeve for the laptop pulls out completely from the backpack itself but stays attached with "rails" to prevent theft. I've never had an issue with this and never needed to place the laptop in a new tray. I fly once a month round trip in the US.
      - alistairSH 10y ago
        True enough, I forgot about the TSA bags with flip-out sleeves.
bpsagar 10y ago
Similar thing happened with my IMac. Heard the hissing noise and smoke started rising up from behind the screen. Quickly switched off the power supply, thankfully it didn't explode but couldn't get it fixed after that. They claimed that they weren't supporting that model anymore.
- vortico 10y ago
  iMacs don't have batteries, right...?
  - itg 10y ago
    Could be from a capacitor?
    - detaro 10y ago
      hissing noise and smoke sounds like an electrolytic capacitor, yes.
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kippfe 10y ago
heat/ventilation cause it? Using notebook not on a flat surface is the cause of heated unit
teekert 10y ago
Hmm, reading this I think my old Kindle Keyboard has a swollen battery. I googled a bit and found this excellent write-up [0]. It suggests to stop using it immediately. Bummer! I have been using it for 2 years now (I think) in the swollen state... [0] https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-or-laptop-has-a-swollen-battery/ https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-...
- damontal 10y ago
  do you prefer the keyboard over the paperwhite or are you just using it because it's good enough?
  - teekert 10y ago
    It's still good enough for me :)
yourapostasy 10y ago
Perhaps Apple can attach a capacitor sufficient to drive the new touch bar, or make the touch bar e-ink, then display an overheat warning and prevent the power button from operating?
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  This was last year's model, though.
- LeifCarrotson 10y ago
  A capacitor of sufficient size to drive the touch bar (even just a few milliwatts for a minute) would be very large. The application requires a backup chemical battery (which is already something present on the motherboard) not a capacitor.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
> After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell... People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products. Here's a programmer, so I assume he has some technical abilities/interests, and yet even he doesn't seem to know that some batteries can do this.
- josefresco 10y ago
  How would one educated on battery chemistry do anything different? The author states "however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening." You can't see it swelling so there's no actionable item here.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    In this case he happened to handle it pretty well. Educating people that this CAN happen will allow them to handle it when it does happen. Most people probably would not handle it this well. Actually, the touch pad tends to pop up when the batteries start swelling. It may not have in this case, but it's common enough that people get _some_ warning.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products. Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode. I admit to knowing nothing about battery tech but if there were suddenly massive penalties for exploding batteries I don't think it would be long until we had a workable solution. It should not be up to a consumer buying a phone/laptop to learn about how their battery works and how to identify a potentially dangerous situation.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    > Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode. You own a vehicle?
pimlottc 10y ago
This is definitely frightening but "exploded" sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. Every time I've read about an "exploding" phone or other device it seems like "caught on fire" would be a more accurate description.
- to3m 10y ago
  Indeed, and the clarification is valuable; an explosion while using your laptop in bed might actually be a serious matter.
- mrb 10y ago
  "There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop"
WildUtah 10y ago
I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if the hard disk had survived. Apple has solved this problem in the current models. There's no longer any way for the hard disk to leave you in doubt. It's now fused to the motherboard permanently so that it cannot be recovered even if it does survive some kind of trouble. Keep your backups up to date.
- iSnow 10y ago
  I think they have added a port to the mainboard which can be used to try and salvage data if the mainboard is fried. But it's still unbelievable that they soldered the SSD to the mainboard.
  - h1d 10y ago
    You would call it unbelievable if Apple made it tiny bit heavier or thicker by keeping parts more independent but still call it unbelievable trying to keep a minimal structure.
- wwweston 10y ago
  But it's the thinnest, sleekest, most stylish way to limit your data preserving and upgrade options on the market!
- nodesocket 10y ago
  Just use a AirPort Time Capsule. Great piece of mind and just works.
  - btschaegg 10y ago
    Idk, but for me, the parent's description would evoke the exact opposite of peace of mind.
- bartvk 10y ago
  > Keep your backups up to date. Seconded. I've got a Time Machine disk both on my personal office as well as at the client's site. My new 2016 MacBook Pro failed to charge on a Saturday morning. Brought it in for service, bought another one for the time being, restored from backup and bam -- ready to work on Monday morning. Making (and restoring) backups is ridiculously easy with macOS.
coldtea 10y ago
>After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell, and there have been numerous reports in the past about older MacBook batteries swelling up and catching fire — however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening. That's true. Damn, Apple, how about a bloody sensor for such stuff at least to give an early warning? >If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery fires burn hot and fast with little time to react. Whereas if you have any other brand it's OK? Millions of computer users were on red alert last night after they were warned that their laptops could burst into flames at any moment. In an extraordinary admission, the world's largest computer firm, Dell, said yesterday that 4.1 million laptops are at risk. The computer giant was forced to confess that problems with the laptop's batteries, made by Sony, means they are a major 'fire hazard'. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Investigation-Battery-Lithium-Ion-Fire-Laptop-Computer-412459303.html http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Investiga...
- rhcom2 10y ago
  I don't know if it is a sensor or just a timer but my 2012 MBP warns me about my battery nearing the end of my life.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    I recently replaced the battery in my 2010. No warning, but I was unable to "click" the trackpad. Battery was expanding and needed replacement.
  - rsynnott 10y ago
    I think that warning is just based on diminished remaining capacity vs design capacity.
  - extra88 10y ago
    I hope your MBP is not warning you about the end of your life ;) My thinking about what your Mac is doing is in line with rsynnott, it might be based on your battery's current charge capacity vs. its original capacity, I'm more inclined to think the message is triggered by your battery's cycle count. You can find all this information in the System Information application, under Power.
doctorwho 10y ago
This has been a problem since forever. I had one of the first Intel Macbooks and the damned thing blew up 2 batteries. They swelled up to about 4 times their original thickness overnight. Luckily, they didn't explode but after the second incident the Macbook got recycled with extreme prejudice.
theandrewbailey 10y ago
> After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the smoke, I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if the hard disk had survived. > Didn’t look like it: I agree. This is the first time I've seen a hard drive transform into (what looks like) an SSD under any condition.
roryisok 10y ago
yikes. I have two very swollen lithium batteries in my shed from two old mbps I've been meaning to ditch. I had no idea they could spontaneously combust. I'll be getting rid of them tomorrow!
- wila 10y ago
  If they been there for a while then they are discharged and there is nothing to worry about.
partiallogic 10y ago
I'd be interested to know how the bathroom tiles look and whether people recommend to do the same in a similar situation.
deleted 10y ago
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ZoFreX 10y ago
Pretty lucky he dealt with it so quickly. A mattress fire is not a trivial thing to deal with!
zeveb 10y ago
This really worries me: I own three laptops, use a fourth for work and thus I often have three — and sometimes four — laptops fully-charged at home. What exactly are the parameters under which an unattended laptop may catch fire? Only when the laptop itself is running? Only if running and heat exchange is impeded? I honestly don't know, and that worries me.
- DenisM 10y ago
  I'm thinking maybe purchase a fireproof safe and lock the laptops in there while not in use? I can't think of much else, really.
dfsegoat 10y ago
Just curious if there is a manufacturer+model and/or lot number that is still legible on the battery or an old system report output? Have been having some weird overheating and "hard off" power-issues with my 2015 MBP --- and now am pretty concerned about this. It is a remanufactured from Apple though. So I know the battery was replaced. But still...
Animats 10y ago
How much extra space did Apple allow around the battery for swelling? Samsung's problem seems to be that they fit the battery in so tightly that if it ever swells, it's contained by the limited space. Then pressure builds up until it shorts, goes into thermal runaway, and catches fire.[1] Maybe it's time to require that anything bigger than a phone use lithium-iron-phosphate battery technology, which doesn't have a thermal runaway problem. Most pro power tools already do; it's expected that they will be used hard and abused. So do "Boosted" brand electric skateboards, and many (all?) second generation UL approved "hoverboards". If it's going to be banged around, that seems to be the way to go. There's a 14% energy density penalty with lithium-iron-phosphate batters vs regular lithium-ion. They're also more expensive. But the "does not blow up or catch fire" feature is worth it. Here's a video of someone driving a 3" nail through a LiFePo battery.[2] Five minutes of heavy white smoke and some runny black stuff, but no flames or explosion. Compare the standard nail test (done by remote control) of a LIon battery.[3] [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy-note-7-exploding-overheating/ https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy-note-7-explo... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM
- Rebelgecko 10y ago
  Not sure how much empty space Apple leaves for swelling, but when I had it happen to me, it actually warped the laptop's case and caused it to noticeably bow outward. The trackpad also stopped clicking, so it there must be some room there.
- Retric 10y ago
  That 14% works out to around a billion + per year in the US which is IMO not really worth it for the few actual issues with lithium ion batteries.
  - mediocrejoker 10y ago
    Can you clarify what you're referring to? A billion what per year? Dollars?
HugoDaniel 10y ago
Apple has a page dedicated to batteries https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
rickyc091 10y ago
One thing I'm curious about is if the author noticed a budge before the laptop exploded and brought it to the Apple store. I had a similar problem as I noticed the laptop was uneven as I was typing. Noticed there was a bump on the bottom and brought it to the store to have it repaired. Not saying it's ideal, but there might have been a chance it could have been prevented before it got too far out of hand.
erdojo 10y ago
If you sit a MBP on a pillow, the fan circulation is significantly reduced, causing overheating. It also depends on your CPU usage...running with a few dozen tabs open while editing videos? Yikes, hot. One other thing: if you smoke, residue can also reduce the effectiveness of cooling systems and affect system performance. EDIT: Not suggesting this was the OP's fault, just suggesting there are logical ways to reduce this risk.
- pdabbadabba 10y ago
  I'm confused. What does this have to do with the apparent battery failure that OP experienced?
  - OopsieBadidea8 10y ago
    Why are you assuming the battery is the source, not the result, of a failure elsewhere in the system? No one has done a real root cause analysis and research shows humans are really bad at it when relying on intuition alone. Cascading failure here is possible. I've never seen one actually light a battery on fire. The last encounter was a gaming level video card plowing a capacitor, starting a fire within the entire desktop. From the article: > If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery fires burn hot and fast with little time to react. If this person was in a habit of leaving it in a poorly ventilated place, like their squishy bed, the electronics could have become compromised over time. Also from the article: > however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening. This is not true. Users have reported that prior to discovering battery swelling, their trackpad quit working and in some cases began separating from the top chassis.
BWStearns 10y ago
Similar thing happened to my retina external display the other week and I had to unplug my monitor and run it out to my balcony while I could see flames in the display (though I assume the root of the problem was different as there is no battery). Luckily it suffocated itself pretty quickly.
bratsche 10y ago
There have been a number of stories about laptops and mobile phones exploding due to issues with batteries. Fortunately the author here managed to get the Mac into a reasonably safe place just before it really exploded and he got away with only blistered fingers. What I'm curious about is, are companies like Tesla able to put some sort of safety precautions into their cars and their PowerWall to prevent this from happening and to alert the user that something in their battery is horribly wrong? An electric car battery is way bigger than a Mac's battery, but at least the car owner has the chance to get out of the car and get away from it. But a Powerwall? If it's going to blow up is it going to burn your house down in the process?
jimrandomh 10y ago
> There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop and smoke kept pouring out. It kept sizzling for a few minutes and then finally it stopped. > The house had filled up with smoke everywhere, the acidic stench of melted plastic made my eyes water. > After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the smoke, ... Wrong answer. The correct answer was "leave the building and call the fire department". You really really do not want to breathe the smoke from a battery fire.
nodesocket 10y ago
As a shareholder, curious what Apple said and did as a response. Did they offer a brand new MacBook free of charge?
chiefalchemist 10y ago
One does not a trend make. How many were manufactured? How many failed in this way? Is it reasonable to expect perfection? (Hint: Oh hell no.) p.s. I'm not saying it's right. Simply pointing out that "life happens" and random events are in fact woven into the fabric of the universe.

372 points by zepolen 10y ago

I get the whole "cautionary tale" thing, but you should probably contact Apple to remedy both your personal loss and so that they have more information about failing components. In my experience they take this stuff very seriously.

eddieroger 10y ago
Same. I had an issue with a failed charger many years ago, and in addition to getting a new charger, I was contacted by their product safety group for more information on how it was used to make it stronger in the future. Confirmed, they take product safety seriously. > In fact it could be happening to your battery right now. Yes, any lithium battery in any device could have this problem. Odds are good that it was swelling before it finally failed, and if the machine hadn't been restarted and instead had been checked, that may have been identified. Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  You can't just open a Mac though and have a look, they use proprietary screws and it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE!
  - detaro 10y ago
    > it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE! Then they really haven't been paying attention, batteries exploding is mentioned regularly in media, makes for very popular Youtube videos, ... It's understandable that people don't expect it happening to them (it's fairly unlikely).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- matclayton 10y ago
  I had the exact opposite experience, I went in to a store with a MacBook Pro (2013) which had morphed by a good 1-2cm's due to the battery expanding over the course of the previous hour. They refused to take it and insisted I book a genius appointment for the following week. After much insisting (30-40minutes) they finally agreed to take the battery and keep it in their safe for a week, until the first available genius appointment was available. There they said it was out of warranty as its a disposable part and therefore not covered by the AppleCare+ plan I had at the time. Genuinely it was the worst experience I've had in an apple store to date.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    You might have countered with I understand it isn't covered by AppleCare. I suppose we'll found out if it's covered by Apple liability.
    - pc86 10y ago
      But then we couldn't have snarky internet posts about how terrible Apple is!
      - koolba 10y ago
        True but we'd get snarky internet posts about the cleverness of their in-house legal defense team.
        JBReefer 10y ago
        "most valuable company on Earth sues man whose testicles they burned off" is about the worst PR possible
  - eddieroger 10y ago
    It's unfortunate that this was the experience you had. I imagine whomever you talked to was under the impression that hardware can't be taken that isn't accepted as part of a Genius Bar appointment, and didn't know the severity of what could happen would the battery fail. A training failure on Apple's part. That said, my cousin took a similar era MacBook to the Apple Store for swelling, and was able to see a Genius that afternoon and got a battery swap.
- tatoalo 10y ago
  >> If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed. Beautiful line here. > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? This.
  - soylentcola 10y ago
    I run across this all the time with (insert item that uses lithium batteries here). People ask "can't those things explode?!" Well, yeah, if it's got a lithium battery it can. That's why you buy batteries from reputable sources (or items with integrated batteries from reputable sources), don't charge them unattended, and be aware of anything getting warm or expanding.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      >>don't charge them unattended I really hope this is a joke, because I can't imagine having to watch over anything while charging it. I'm sure that almost everyone charges their phone and laptop when sleeping for instance.
      - kpil 10y ago
        Unfortunately, no joke. Minimally, do not charge things in a bed or covered by a blanket.
    - laythea 10y ago
      That's ridiculous. My 2015 MacBook gets warm/hot as a matter of course during the normal use of software. How am I supposed to know whether it is a precursor to an explosion or just normal usage? Apparently there is no way to know, and it is a matter of luck whether your <insert lithium charged device here> explodes. As a society why are we selling these things (not just apple) that can explode during normal usage. If a car manufacturer had an equivalent such design, the manufacturer would recall and fix said problem for free. And yes, if there is no "fix" then they should not sell this technology at all. I suspect that the tech-industry lobbyists would not agree.
- mikeash 10y ago
  > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? There was a huge amount of attention, which included the things being banned on aircraft, for Samsung's fire-prone phones. Before that, it was "hoverboards." I think the answer is yes, it would.
  - ribosometronome 10y ago
    All popular devices will have a few that have this happen of the lifetime of the device. The Note 7 and hoverboards were exploding at a rate far higher than should be expected -- that was the news. For example, there was a video of an Inspiron exploding a few weeks ago that new made its way to HN (that I saw).
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    EgyptAir is investigating if a phone or tablet may have led to a crash of one of their jets: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/pilots-phone-tablet-batteries-may-have-caused-egyptair-crash/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/pilots-phone-tabl... There have been many devices that have come under scrutiny for their Li-Ion cells. At least few devices explode, and I'm not aware of any killing people, but many have had these meltdowns. Big Clive successfully took one apart without it going boomb if anyone is interested in what's inside of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1eRy0uBI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1eRy0uBI8
    - kakwa_ 10y ago
      A few aircraft incidents/accidents were caused by batteries. There is of course the 787 of All Nippon Airway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_... And with battery as a cargo this time, there is a UPS 747: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6 It's funny/terrifying how we deeply need higher capacity batteries, with shorter charging time and greater energy density, but as a same time, it will probably lead to more unstable and more "prone to burst into flames" items...
- code_duck 10y ago
  I had a charger with cords that frayed quickly, but was slightly out of warranty. Not only were the people at the Apple store not concerned, they insisted it was entirely my fault, and were very rude to me. Then when I called and complained the manager said they'd give me a free replacement. Then, when I returned, it was a repeat of the first time - they blamed it on me, were not interested at all in my explanation of ow the charger was damaged, and were very rude.
- doctorwho 10y ago
  > Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook? No, but then Apple often invites it by continuing to claim it's s#1t doesn't stink.
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  > Confirmed, they take product safety seriously Technically all that really confirms is that they take the PR/image aspect of safety seriously. May have been more a CYA than anything else. Yes, cynical view, I know.
- gnicholas 10y ago
  In 2016, I called Apple about a 2011 Macbook Air (purchased with AppleCare, expired in 2014) about its bulging battery. After a short conversation with a tier-2 support person, they agreed to replace the battery for free. They were also willing to replace the keyboard and bottom case, if there were any permanent deformations (there weren't). I took it in to my local Apple Store and they had it back to me in 48 hours. I'm sure this is a YMMV issue, so the best lesson is perhaps to call several times until you get a good answer.
Alex3917 10y ago
> In my experience they take this stuff very seriously. In my experience they tell you that your computer is at risk of catching on fire, but that they're not going to pay to replace your swelling battery.
- bartvk 10y ago
  > but that they're not going to pay to replace your swelling battery I don't think that's strange. Here in N/W Europe, warranties are quite good. However warranty on consumables such as batteries is only 6 months.
bradstewart 10y ago
My fiancee's older Macbook Pro (non-unibody) had a battery swelling issue. The bottom cover of the computer popped off in the middle of the night from the swelling. We went to the Apple store, and were told "you charged this battery too many times, we will replace it for $99." The computer was about 5 years old at the time.
- dkonofalski 10y ago
  That's an oversimplification. Macbooks tell you how many cycles the computer has left and give you a safety warning to have the battery serviced or replaced once you reach the 85% mark of usable cycles. You clearly ignored the service warning and/or the safety warning and continued to charge it. It wasn't a defective battery, it was the user ignoring (perhaps unintentionally) that their battery was no longer usable. Why should they replace it without charging for it?
parasj 10y ago
It used to be a mixed bag - it's good to hear that they've improved their attitude to battery issues. I remember taking a bulging in-warranty battery for a white unibody-era Macbook into the Valley Fair Apple Store and being told that it was my fault the battery was damaged. Genius bar wanted to charge for a battery swap and wouldn't dispose the battery for me if I didn't pay for the swap.
dean 10y ago
A few years back, I had a 6-year-old white uni-body MacBook with a swollen battery that was long out of warranty. I made an appointment at the Apple Store, and when I took it in, they took one look at the battery, gave me new battery and sent me on my way. They didn't even mention the word warranty. I was there for 5 minutes. I had zero expectations going in, so was quite happy and impressed with their response.
runjake 10y ago
They take it especially seriously when a story like this gains traction in the press. You get immediate escalation to the executive team.
cmg 10y ago
Agreed. In 2005, I worked for a company where there was an incident that led to the 2005 PowerBook G4/iBook G4 battery recall [0]. I worked on the IT helpdesk at the time, and though I wasn't working the late shift that night, we all found out about it the next morning. A woman called the helpdesk because her PowerBook had caught fire. (Side note: the department was very insistent on not having water/liquids near equipment, so she actually apologized for pouring water on her flaming laptop.) Thankfully she put it out immediately. Her desk was scorched and the laptop was burned beyond repair (but we did manage to get a DriveSavers-like company to recover most of the data on the HDD). The IT director called our Apple rep the next day and they immediately began a process of investigation. They paid to have the desk replaced, replaced the laptop and paid for the third-party data recovery. Granted this was 12 years ago and I wasn't involved in direct conversations with Apple myself as a lowly level 1 helpdesk technician, but from everything I saw they handled the situation completely professionally and seriously. The model number A1078 is forever etched into my mind. [0] https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2005/cpsc-apple-announce-recall-of-ibook-and-powerbook-computer-batteries https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2005/cpsc-apple-announce-recall...

DenisM 10y ago

Well, one more thing to worry about. Should I leave my MacBooks in the bathroom sink when going out?

brandon272 10y ago
I'm guessing your home is far more likely to burn down from other causes than from your Macbook. A Galaxy Note 7, on the other hand...
admyral 10y ago
If you're going to be worried about everything that has a small chance of failing and injuring you, I'm sorry to say you're currently living in a minefield. But statistically you'd be more likely to break your toe on the coffee table than your laptop exploding and burning down your house.
- overcast 10y ago
  Breaking your toe on the coffee table, I'd say has a pretty high statistical chance.
- DenisM 10y ago
  My toe will heal, the stakes are low. My house burning down on the other hand can have fatal consequences for my cat if I'm not at home.
  - admyral 10y ago
    Depending on where you live, house destroying disasters like earthquakes, floods, and storms have similarly fatal consequences but are statistically more likely to occur. My point is make reasonable preparations and insure any valuable belongings, but thinking about it too much doesn't make it any less likely its going to happen to you.
- vojant 10y ago
  I broke my toe on the coffee table last year and in my old mbp battery swallowed - so it's not very comforting

John23832 10y ago

Given the debacle that was the Note 7 (which came from Samsung's obsession with thinness), I'm surprised we don't see more of these super thin devices catching fire. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt. Next-gen's MPB will be .5 inches slimmer.

MikusR 10y ago
It came from defective batteries not thinness.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  I thought the batteries didn't have the space they needed to expand?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - MikusR 10y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459764
- John23832 10y ago
  The batteries expanded upon use, and due to the slimness of the phone, they had no room. This caused the conductive chemical layers within the batteries to leak through the porous separating layers, and the resulting reaction caused fires. To me, that has to do with slimness.
  - MikusR 10y ago
    So two independent companies (after testing many phones) came to conclusion that there were two different manufacturing defects in batteries used. But they were wrong and the problem was phones thinness. You should contact Samsung immediately.

evo_9 10y ago

Unsurprisingly even Apple laptops require ventilation; I thought it was common knowledge that you can easily destroy any laptop by running it on a soft, heat multiplying surface like a bedspread....

Zak 10y ago
Routinely blocking the air inlets and outlets on a laptop increases the probability that electronic components will fail over time, though most modern laptops have multiple forms over overheat protection and will throttle CPU speed or even shut down if they get too hot. I should note that all the airflow in a Macbook Pro is through the sides and rear, not the bottom, so setting it on a soft surface would not typically block the vents. The temperatures that start to increase failure rates for electronic components are far lower than those that trigger thermal runaway in Li-ion batteries. The least thermally stable Li-ion batteries, those with cobalt-based cathodes, are at risk of thermal runaway over 150C. I've never heard of poor cooling being the root cause of a laptop battery fire.
- rubicon33 10y ago
  What then is the (likely) root cause of these laptop battery fires?
  - rsynnott 10y ago
    It's a lithium ion battery. Normal consumer ones have very low but non-zero catastrophic failure rates.
mikeash 10y ago
With modern technology, it's completely unacceptable for consumer electronics to catch fire when running it on a bedspread. It should shut itself down when it gets too hot. Worst case, it might break due to being too hot, but it should never catch fire.
- raarts 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mynegation 10y ago

I do not know what happened, but given that bed is in the picture, it could happen that the laptop was put on a blanket or a pillow, which closed the air ducts. Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone.

enraged_camel 10y ago
>>Having said that, of course, safety mechanisms should have shut down everything before the temperature goes into the proximity of the danger zone. Um, they did. It's literally the very first sentence of the article. The guy decided to turn it back on, which is when it blew up.
- mixedCase 10y ago
  I don't know about Macbooks, but my desktop PC will refuse to POST if temps are past the critical threshold.
  - dijit 10y ago
    That doesn't matter; most PCs and Macs (which are just PCs really) will flood the motherboard with power to wake everything up. Where is that power going to come from if not the battery? you can't have any logic without power.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      It ought to have a hard cutoff right at the battery involving only simple electronics, no software, which prevents it from providing the rest of the computer with any power if the battery is at an unsafe temperature.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      You can have a small battery or capacitor that powers a small circuit that performs overheating checks pre-boot.

awiesenhofer 10y ago

Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple, I remember having to exchange the battery from my white pre-unibody MacBook twice because it was swollen by over a centimeter. There was a recall even IIRC. Of course, back then you could swap it out yourself.

stinos 10y ago
Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple Exactly, happened to me as well like 6 years ago (which in combo with the magnetic power connector made me lose work more than once due to me continueing to use the macbook without bad battery followed by me/cats/wife tripping over the cable). Just searching for e.g. 'macbook swollen battery' gives quite some results.
maaaats 10y ago
>Defective batteries aren't that new to Apple It was even their business model with the iPods back in the days.

PascLeRasc 10y ago

Is there some way to tell if a battery is swelling using CoconutBattery? Like some sudden dropoff in capacity?

always_learning 10y ago
I'd like to know this too. I've got the same model as stated in the article. I'm weary now that it may cause a malfunction
tedmiston 10y ago
Not sure if there is, but if you click the Battery Info... button, it shows a popup with a field called Battery failure in addition to the normal OSX battery status.

BadassFractal 10y ago

Had a portable bluetooth speaker do the same to me while I was in the same room with it, it was simply charging, wasn't even being used. Also very fortunate to be able to extinguish it right on the spot before it set the apartment and consequently the building on fire. I've grown pretty skeptical of that sort of batteries after the fact, but there's not much you can do about it at this point since there's one in almost every device you can think of. It's like sitting on an explosive device that can go off anytime without any notice.

stcredzero 10y ago
Having higher power density is very convenient, but not exploding is a great characteristic of NiMH batteries. Charging mishaps can happen with those as well, but I've never heard of a cascade failure overtaking NiMH while just sitting there. I've had young programmers sneer at me about my continued use of NiMH AA and AAA batteries, but there are some advantages.
- spronkey 10y ago
  I wouldn't give Lithium Ion-based stuff to kids to play with unsupervised. NiMH for the win.

hasbroslasher 10y ago

Didn't Samsung already patent this feature?

devopsproject 10y ago
They copied it from apple ;) http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more-exploding-iphones/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/more-exploding-iphones/
- DonHopkins 10y ago
  Actually the NeXT cube pioneered the prior art of computer hardware exploding into a inextinguishable conflagration of flames. Apple just refined and popularized the technology by making it much easier to ignite, without requiring additional peripherals like a MAP gas torch. https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html https://simson.net/hacks/cubefire.html

ipsin 10y ago

If unseen swelling is a problem, couldn't you fix it with a simple sensor, like a fragile paper tape conductor that goes around the battery? It swells, the circuit goes dead, and that's the signal for the charger to stop charging.

artursapek 10y ago
Sort of like a fuse
RKearney 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but these incidents are sometimes triggered by charging, but never escalated by it. Once the layers of the cell make contact it shorts the entire battery and causes the battery to discharge quickly, releasing the energy in the form of heat. Just because you've removed the power source from the battery doesn't mean the battery won't stop discharging.
- detaro 10y ago
  Batteries (can, not always) swell quite a while before they "go off", so detecting swelling would be a useful sign that something is wrong and to stop charging to not trigger it.
  - jononor 10y ago
    A pressure sensor between battery and its enclosure could be used. Or strain sensors on the pack itself. It should probably just disallow charging completely, as people have a tendency to ignore warnings.
- dreish 10y ago
  I've had plenty of batteries swell, and none catch fire before I got them replaced, so I have to think it could help. In my experience Apple is not consistently good about dealing with this. In every case, I've ultimately been able to get the battery replaced at no cost to me, but with an iPhone 6 that started swelling about a year ago, pushing the screen out, phone support told me flatly that this wasn't something that could possibly happen with such a new device, and suggested that I try to make a Genius Bar appointment on my own. When I brought the phone into the store later that day, they replaced it on the spot, with no appointment. (I wasn't going to accept carrying around a time bomb for another week or more.)

busterarm 10y ago

The last time I took my 2015 rMBP on a flight with me, TSA saw my laptop on the scanner and the guy at the machine's eyes bugged out while he did a double take. They swabbed the crap out of my laptop, detected nothing and then let me through. I was confused and didn't understand why, but I wonder if maybe battery swelling is why.

magic_beans 10y ago
Aren't you supposed to put laptops "alone in its own tray"?
- dpark 10y ago
  Sure. Where did he say he didn't do that?
- freehunter 10y ago
  I've had some TSA folks tell me to do that and some say I can leave it in my bag.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  US: Rule is non-thin laptops go in a separate tray. Tablets and super-thin laptops can stay in the bag. But, this is enforced inconsistently. Europe (UK, Ireland, Italy, and Iceland): Separate tray every time I've passed through in the last 4 years.
  - alasdair_ 10y ago
    I have a backpack where the sleeve for the laptop pulls out completely from the backpack itself but stays attached with "rails" to prevent theft. I've never had an issue with this and never needed to place the laptop in a new tray. I fly once a month round trip in the US.
    - alistairSH 10y ago
      True enough, I forgot about the TSA bags with flip-out sleeves.

bpsagar 10y ago

Similar thing happened with my IMac. Heard the hissing noise and smoke started rising up from behind the screen. Quickly switched off the power supply, thankfully it didn't explode but couldn't get it fixed after that. They claimed that they weren't supporting that model anymore.

vortico 10y ago
iMacs don't have batteries, right...?
- itg 10y ago
  Could be from a capacitor?
  - detaro 10y ago
    hissing noise and smoke sounds like an electrolytic capacitor, yes.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kippfe 10y ago

heat/ventilation cause it? Using notebook not on a flat surface is the cause of heated unit

teekert 10y ago

Hmm, reading this I think my old Kindle Keyboard has a swollen battery. I googled a bit and found this excellent write-up [0]. It suggests to stop using it immediately. Bummer! I have been using it for 2 years now (I think) in the swollen state... [0] https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-or-laptop-has-a-swollen-battery/ https://www.howtogeek.com/244846/what-to-do-when-your-phone-...

damontal 10y ago
do you prefer the keyboard over the paperwhite or are you just using it because it's good enough?
- teekert 10y ago
  It's still good enough for me :)

yourapostasy 10y ago

Perhaps Apple can attach a capacitor sufficient to drive the new touch bar, or make the touch bar e-ink, then display an overheat warning and prevent the power button from operating?

JustSomeNobody 10y ago
This was last year's model, though.
LeifCarrotson 10y ago
A capacitor of sufficient size to drive the touch bar (even just a few milliwatts for a minute) would be very large. The application requires a backup chemical battery (which is already something present on the motherboard) not a capacitor.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

> After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell... People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products. Here's a programmer, so I assume he has some technical abilities/interests, and yet even he doesn't seem to know that some batteries can do this.

josefresco 10y ago
How would one educated on battery chemistry do anything different? The author states "however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening." You can't see it swelling so there's no actionable item here.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  In this case he happened to handle it pretty well. Educating people that this CAN happen will allow them to handle it when it does happen. Most people probably would not handle it this well. Actually, the touch pad tends to pop up when the batteries start swelling. It may not have in this case, but it's common enough that people get _some_ warning.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> People really need to be educated on battery chemistry when they buy battery operated products. Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode. I admit to knowing nothing about battery tech but if there were suddenly massive penalties for exploding batteries I don't think it would be long until we had a workable solution. It should not be up to a consumer buying a phone/laptop to learn about how their battery works and how to identify a potentially dangerous situation.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  > Or it should be illegal to sell products that can catch fire/explode. You own a vehicle?

pimlottc 10y ago

This is definitely frightening but "exploded" sounds a bit hyperbolic to me. Every time I've read about an "exploding" phone or other device it seems like "caught on fire" would be a more accurate description.

to3m 10y ago
Indeed, and the clarification is valuable; an explosion while using your laptop in bed might actually be a serious matter.
mrb 10y ago
"There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop"

WildUtah 10y ago

I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if the hard disk had survived. Apple has solved this problem in the current models. There's no longer any way for the hard disk to leave you in doubt. It's now fused to the motherboard permanently so that it cannot be recovered even if it does survive some kind of trouble. Keep your backups up to date.

iSnow 10y ago
I think they have added a port to the mainboard which can be used to try and salvage data if the mainboard is fried. But it's still unbelievable that they soldered the SSD to the mainboard.
- h1d 10y ago
  You would call it unbelievable if Apple made it tiny bit heavier or thicker by keeping parts more independent but still call it unbelievable trying to keep a minimal structure.
wwweston 10y ago
But it's the thinnest, sleekest, most stylish way to limit your data preserving and upgrade options on the market!
nodesocket 10y ago
Just use a AirPort Time Capsule. Great piece of mind and just works.
- btschaegg 10y ago
  Idk, but for me, the parent's description would evoke the exact opposite of peace of mind.
bartvk 10y ago
> Keep your backups up to date. Seconded. I've got a Time Machine disk both on my personal office as well as at the client's site. My new 2016 MacBook Pro failed to charge on a Saturday morning. Brought it in for service, bought another one for the time being, restored from backup and bam -- ready to work on Monday morning. Making (and restoring) backups is ridiculously easy with macOS.

coldtea 10y ago

>After reading up on the matter it seems that lithium batteries can swell, and there have been numerous reports in the past about older MacBook batteries swelling up and catching fire — however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening. That's true. Damn, Apple, how about a bloody sensor for such stuff at least to give an early warning? >If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery fires burn hot and fast with little time to react. Whereas if you have any other brand it's OK? Millions of computer users were on red alert last night after they were warned that their laptops could burst into flames at any moment. In an extraordinary admission, the world's largest computer firm, Dell, said yesterday that 4.1 million laptops are at risk. The computer giant was forced to confess that problems with the laptop's batteries, made by Sony, means they are a major 'fire hazard'. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Investigation-Battery-Lithium-Ion-Fire-Laptop-Computer-412459303.html http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Investiga...

rhcom2 10y ago
I don't know if it is a sensor or just a timer but my 2012 MBP warns me about my battery nearing the end of my life.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  I recently replaced the battery in my 2010. No warning, but I was unable to "click" the trackpad. Battery was expanding and needed replacement.
- rsynnott 10y ago
  I think that warning is just based on diminished remaining capacity vs design capacity.
- extra88 10y ago
  I hope your MBP is not warning you about the end of your life ;) My thinking about what your Mac is doing is in line with rsynnott, it might be based on your battery's current charge capacity vs. its original capacity, I'm more inclined to think the message is triggered by your battery's cycle count. You can find all this information in the System Information application, under Power.

doctorwho 10y ago

This has been a problem since forever. I had one of the first Intel Macbooks and the damned thing blew up 2 batteries. They swelled up to about 4 times their original thickness overnight. Luckily, they didn't explode but after the second incident the Macbook got recycled with extreme prejudice.

theandrewbailey 10y ago

> After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the smoke, I removed the back plate to observe the damage and hopefully see if the hard disk had survived. > Didn’t look like it: I agree. This is the first time I've seen a hard drive transform into (what looks like) an SSD under any condition.

roryisok 10y ago

yikes. I have two very swollen lithium batteries in my shed from two old mbps I've been meaning to ditch. I had no idea they could spontaneously combust. I'll be getting rid of them tomorrow!

wila 10y ago
If they been there for a while then they are discharged and there is nothing to worry about.

partiallogic 10y ago

I'd be interested to know how the bathroom tiles look and whether people recommend to do the same in a similar situation.

deleted 10y ago

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ZoFreX 10y ago

Pretty lucky he dealt with it so quickly. A mattress fire is not a trivial thing to deal with!

zeveb 10y ago

This really worries me: I own three laptops, use a fourth for work and thus I often have three — and sometimes four — laptops fully-charged at home. What exactly are the parameters under which an unattended laptop may catch fire? Only when the laptop itself is running? Only if running and heat exchange is impeded? I honestly don't know, and that worries me.

DenisM 10y ago
I'm thinking maybe purchase a fireproof safe and lock the laptops in there while not in use? I can't think of much else, really.

dfsegoat 10y ago

Just curious if there is a manufacturer+model and/or lot number that is still legible on the battery or an old system report output? Have been having some weird overheating and "hard off" power-issues with my 2015 MBP --- and now am pretty concerned about this. It is a remanufactured from Apple though. So I know the battery was replaced. But still...

Animats 10y ago

How much extra space did Apple allow around the battery for swelling? Samsung's problem seems to be that they fit the battery in so tightly that if it ever swells, it's contained by the limited space. Then pressure builds up until it shorts, goes into thermal runaway, and catches fire.[1] Maybe it's time to require that anything bigger than a phone use lithium-iron-phosphate battery technology, which doesn't have a thermal runaway problem. Most pro power tools already do; it's expected that they will be used hard and abused. So do "Boosted" brand electric skateboards, and many (all?) second generation UL approved "hoverboards". If it's going to be banged around, that seems to be the way to go. There's a 14% energy density penalty with lithium-iron-phosphate batters vs regular lithium-ion. They're also more expensive. But the "does not blow up or catch fire" feature is worth it. Here's a video of someone driving a 3" nail through a LiFePo battery.[2] Five minutes of heavy white smoke and some runny black stuff, but no flames or explosion. Compare the standard nail test (done by remote control) of a LIon battery.[3] [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy-note-7-exploding-overheating/ https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy-note-7-explo... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMARDvMz62A [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM

Rebelgecko 10y ago
Not sure how much empty space Apple leaves for swelling, but when I had it happen to me, it actually warped the laptop's case and caused it to noticeably bow outward. The trackpad also stopped clicking, so it there must be some room there.
Retric 10y ago
That 14% works out to around a billion + per year in the US which is IMO not really worth it for the few actual issues with lithium ion batteries.
- mediocrejoker 10y ago
  Can you clarify what you're referring to? A billion what per year? Dollars?

HugoDaniel 10y ago

Apple has a page dedicated to batteries https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/

rickyc091 10y ago

One thing I'm curious about is if the author noticed a budge before the laptop exploded and brought it to the Apple store. I had a similar problem as I noticed the laptop was uneven as I was typing. Noticed there was a bump on the bottom and brought it to the store to have it repaired. Not saying it's ideal, but there might have been a chance it could have been prevented before it got too far out of hand.

erdojo 10y ago

If you sit a MBP on a pillow, the fan circulation is significantly reduced, causing overheating. It also depends on your CPU usage...running with a few dozen tabs open while editing videos? Yikes, hot. One other thing: if you smoke, residue can also reduce the effectiveness of cooling systems and affect system performance. EDIT: Not suggesting this was the OP's fault, just suggesting there are logical ways to reduce this risk.

pdabbadabba 10y ago
I'm confused. What does this have to do with the apparent battery failure that OP experienced?
- OopsieBadidea8 10y ago
  Why are you assuming the battery is the source, not the result, of a failure elsewhere in the system? No one has done a real root cause analysis and research shows humans are really bad at it when relying on intuition alone. Cascading failure here is possible. I've never seen one actually light a battery on fire. The last encounter was a gaming level video card plowing a capacitor, starting a fire within the entire desktop. From the article: > If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed, battery fires burn hot and fast with little time to react. If this person was in a habit of leaving it in a poorly ventilated place, like their squishy bed, the electronics could have become compromised over time. Also from the article: > however with the newer unibody laptops there is no way you can see this swelling happening. This is not true. Users have reported that prior to discovering battery swelling, their trackpad quit working and in some cases began separating from the top chassis.

BWStearns 10y ago

Similar thing happened to my retina external display the other week and I had to unplug my monitor and run it out to my balcony while I could see flames in the display (though I assume the root of the problem was different as there is no battery). Luckily it suffocated itself pretty quickly.

bratsche 10y ago

There have been a number of stories about laptops and mobile phones exploding due to issues with batteries. Fortunately the author here managed to get the Mac into a reasonably safe place just before it really exploded and he got away with only blistered fingers. What I'm curious about is, are companies like Tesla able to put some sort of safety precautions into their cars and their PowerWall to prevent this from happening and to alert the user that something in their battery is horribly wrong? An electric car battery is way bigger than a Mac's battery, but at least the car owner has the chance to get out of the car and get away from it. But a Powerwall? If it's going to blow up is it going to burn your house down in the process?

jimrandomh 10y ago

> There was a bang as I backed away causing the back to pop and smoke kept pouring out. It kept sizzling for a few minutes and then finally it stopped. > The house had filled up with smoke everywhere, the acidic stench of melted plastic made my eyes water. > After I had opened up all the windows in the house and cleared out the smoke, ... Wrong answer. The correct answer was "leave the building and call the fire department". You really really do not want to breathe the smoke from a battery fire.

nodesocket 10y ago

As a shareholder, curious what Apple said and did as a response. Did they offer a brand new MacBook free of charge?

chiefalchemist 10y ago

One does not a trend make. How many were manufactured? How many failed in this way? Is it reasonable to expect perfection? (Hint: Oh hell no.) p.s. I'm not saying it's right. Simply pointing out that "life happens" and random events are in fact woven into the fabric of the universe.