6 ms·

OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already exists.

by struppi 10y ago

OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already exists. Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a disincentive to move there, as a EU citicen, right now...

golergka 10y ago
Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) and are not considering staying in the country illegally after you arrive.
- pavlov 10y ago
  Bulgarians have had all this time (10 years) to go live in the UK legally. Why would they suddenly rush to leave everything behind and go live there illegally? It doesn't make any sense.
  - kyledrake 10y ago
    Is this just straight up racism? What is special about these two specific countries that doesn't apply to any of the other ones in the EU?
    - magic_beans 10y ago
      Size of economy.
    - lawless123 10y ago
      Decades of tabloid news have convinced Britons that the UK is great place to live in spite of the UK having some of the poorest places in the northern EU. http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_regions_poorest_North_Europe.pdf http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_region...
    - mapleoin 10y ago
      Romania and Bulgaria are the last joiners to the EU (2007) (disregarding the much smaller Croatia) and the last two EU countries to be given the right to work in the UK without a work visa (2014) (don't know about Croatia in this respect). Their citizens are perceived to be the least desirable EU citizens to have as immigrants.
  - easydev 10y ago
    You are absolutly right, and few days ago there a proof for your theory - more people are leaving now UK than comming to leave here
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      That isn't true, net migration fell but it is still positive: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/net-migration-to-uk-falls-by-49000-after-brexit-vote https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/net-migratio...
- lucb1e 10y ago
  > Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) But the article is not about people from hacker news, it's about any EU citizen.
- mapleoin 10y ago
  You're confusing right to live with right to travel. You don't need the right to live in order to go to the UK and work illegally.
- oblio 10y ago
  Why wouldn't they stay, legally or ilegally, in the equally rich Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Austria? All of which are closer to the origin countries than the UK. Or why wouldn't they go in the slightly-less-richer, but culturally closer Spain or Italy? Especially since the weather is much nicer over there :)
  - stevekemp 10y ago
    As a British guy in Finland I can say that the reason many people moved to the UK was because of the perception of easy work, easy integration, and good practices. Those things might exist in other countries, I don't know of them personally, but I do know that moving to Finland is non-trivial. The language is hard, and unless you speak it you've only got unskilled jobs to find - with high competition. Gaining residency pretty much necessitates having a job too, which makes it all a bit circular. I'm settled here for the foreseeable future, although I have to wait another couple of years before I qualify for citizenship.
    - raverbashing 10y ago
      Actually, customer facing unskilled jobs are harder to get while only speaking English.
      - stevekemp 10y ago
        I could believe that; I was thinking of things like cleaning and seasonal work such as fruit-picking.
    - berntb 10y ago
      There are lots of English speaking jobs with computers in most countries, including Finland. (I worked there a few years, loved the place but the allergy information was horrible). The sad part with all this is that Scotland will certainly leave the Union now. It is like seeing two old friends getting a divorce. :-(
  - ascorbic 10y ago
- teniutza 10y ago
  Why would "half a country" risk insecurity and (occasional) hostility from locals, to remain illegally in the UK, when there are quite a few other viable options within the EU?
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
It's fairly easy to foresee a rush to get in before the door closes.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Only if you don't understand the system. Merely arriving makes no difference; it's the application for permanent residence that's important.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    We don't know that yet.
    - pjc50 10y ago
      What? We know what the existing system is: residence is a necessary but not sufficient condition for becoming a permanent resident. People who have lived here for ages under the free movement rights are applying for permanent residence, and some are being rejected: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/27/rejections-eu-citizens-seeking-uk-residency https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/27/rejections-e...
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        >What? Every politician I have listened to has said they want existing migrants to stay, it's absurd to think that wouldn't be the case.
- struppi 10y ago
  ...and it's also fairly easy to forsee that this rush will not happen, if, during the negotiations, the economy in britain goes further down. But we will only know for sure in two years. Anyway, I would have expected that there was a bigger rush up until the Brexit vote, when the British economy was very good and moving there seemed to be a safe bet (because it was in the EU and you could stay indefinitely).
teniutza 10y ago
I agree. There already was a (failed) "Romanian invasion" several years ago. Furthermore, the recent events & decisions have given the UK, at leas in my immigrant eyes, a relative sense of insecurity. I would personally not relocate without knowing how the brexiters would react towards immigrants, regardless of the legality of their stay.
laurent123456 10y ago
By the time the UK is done committing sepuku nobody will want to go there anyway. Their immigration problem will solve itself.
tiatia 10y ago
Is this true? Bulgaria and Romania are both EU countries, neither is Schengen.
- asnyder 10y ago
  Pretty sure Romania is in Schengen. As someone that spends more than half the year in Romania I know I hear it mentioned a lot.
  - tiatia 10y ago
    Actually, I am 100% sure that Romania IS NOT Schengen. And the UK is also not Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area I nearly f. this up when I was traveling with my Non-EU girlfriend who was on a single entry Visa and I was about to book a flight for us from Vienna to Sofia to travel in East Europe. The question is: Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements? Looks to me they would need a visa.
    - Symbiote 10y ago
      > Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements? Yes. This right has nothing at all to do with Schengen. The transitional restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians, implemented when the two countries joined the EU, ended on 1 January 2014.
  - teniutza 10y ago
    Joining the Schengen Area is an ongoing process. Romania is currently not a member state.
- teniutza 10y ago
  How is the UK different in this regard?
  - tiatia 10y ago
    The question is, do people from Romania and Bulgaria need a visa? Looks to me they can not just move to the UK but maybe the UK has different agreements with this countries. Just checked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian... Looks like they don't need anything but a passport to go to the UK.

by struppi 10y ago

golergka 10y ago

Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) and are not considering staying in the country illegally after you arrive.

pavlov 10y ago
Bulgarians have had all this time (10 years) to go live in the UK legally. Why would they suddenly rush to leave everything behind and go live there illegally? It doesn't make any sense.
- kyledrake 10y ago
  Is this just straight up racism? What is special about these two specific countries that doesn't apply to any of the other ones in the EU?
  - magic_beans 10y ago
    Size of economy.
  - lawless123 10y ago
    Decades of tabloid news have convinced Britons that the UK is great place to live in spite of the UK having some of the poorest places in the northern EU. http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_regions_poorest_North_Europe.pdf http://inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_region...
  - mapleoin 10y ago
    Romania and Bulgaria are the last joiners to the EU (2007) (disregarding the much smaller Croatia) and the last two EU countries to be given the right to work in the UK without a work visa (2014) (don't know about Croatia in this respect). Their citizens are perceived to be the least desirable EU citizens to have as immigrants.
- easydev 10y ago
  You are absolutly right, and few days ago there a proof for your theory - more people are leaving now UK than comming to leave here
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    That isn't true, net migration fell but it is still positive: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/net-migration-to-uk-falls-by-49000-after-brexit-vote https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/23/net-migratio...
lucb1e 10y ago
> Because you're probably a high-paid professional (reasonable assumption for a HN user) But the article is not about people from hacker news, it's about any EU citizen.
mapleoin 10y ago
You're confusing right to live with right to travel. You don't need the right to live in order to go to the UK and work illegally.
oblio 10y ago
Why wouldn't they stay, legally or ilegally, in the equally rich Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Austria? All of which are closer to the origin countries than the UK. Or why wouldn't they go in the slightly-less-richer, but culturally closer Spain or Italy? Especially since the weather is much nicer over there :)
- stevekemp 10y ago
  As a British guy in Finland I can say that the reason many people moved to the UK was because of the perception of easy work, easy integration, and good practices. Those things might exist in other countries, I don't know of them personally, but I do know that moving to Finland is non-trivial. The language is hard, and unless you speak it you've only got unskilled jobs to find - with high competition. Gaining residency pretty much necessitates having a job too, which makes it all a bit circular. I'm settled here for the foreseeable future, although I have to wait another couple of years before I qualify for citizenship.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Actually, customer facing unskilled jobs are harder to get while only speaking English.
    - stevekemp 10y ago
      I could believe that; I was thinking of things like cleaning and seasonal work such as fruit-picking.
  - berntb 10y ago
    There are lots of English speaking jobs with computers in most countries, including Finland. (I worked there a few years, loved the place but the allergy information was horrible). The sad part with all this is that Scotland will certainly leave the Union now. It is like seeing two old friends getting a divorce. :-(
- ascorbic 10y ago
teniutza 10y ago
Why would "half a country" risk insecurity and (occasional) hostility from locals, to remain illegally in the UK, when there are quite a few other viable options within the EU?

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

It's fairly easy to foresee a rush to get in before the door closes.

pjc50 10y ago
Only if you don't understand the system. Merely arriving makes no difference; it's the application for permanent residence that's important.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  We don't know that yet.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    What? We know what the existing system is: residence is a necessary but not sufficient condition for becoming a permanent resident. People who have lived here for ages under the free movement rights are applying for permanent residence, and some are being rejected: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/27/rejections-eu-citizens-seeking-uk-residency https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/27/rejections-e...
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      >What? Every politician I have listened to has said they want existing migrants to stay, it's absurd to think that wouldn't be the case.
struppi 10y ago
...and it's also fairly easy to forsee that this rush will not happen, if, during the negotiations, the economy in britain goes further down. But we will only know for sure in two years. Anyway, I would have expected that there was a bigger rush up until the Brexit vote, when the British economy was very good and moving there seemed to be a safe bet (because it was in the EU and you could stay indefinitely).

teniutza 10y ago

I agree. There already was a (failed) "Romanian invasion" several years ago. Furthermore, the recent events & decisions have given the UK, at leas in my immigrant eyes, a relative sense of insecurity. I would personally not relocate without knowing how the brexiters would react towards immigrants, regardless of the legality of their stay.

laurent123456 10y ago

By the time the UK is done committing sepuku nobody will want to go there anyway. Their immigration problem will solve itself.

tiatia 10y ago

Is this true? Bulgaria and Romania are both EU countries, neither is Schengen.

asnyder 10y ago
Pretty sure Romania is in Schengen. As someone that spends more than half the year in Romania I know I hear it mentioned a lot.
- tiatia 10y ago
  Actually, I am 100% sure that Romania IS NOT Schengen. And the UK is also not Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area I nearly f. this up when I was traveling with my Non-EU girlfriend who was on a single entry Visa and I was about to book a flight for us from Vienna to Sofia to travel in East Europe. The question is: Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements? Looks to me they would need a visa.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    > Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements? Yes. This right has nothing at all to do with Schengen. The transitional restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians, implemented when the two countries joined the EU, ended on 1 January 2014.
- teniutza 10y ago
  Joining the Schengen Area is an ongoing process. Romania is currently not a member state.
teniutza 10y ago
How is the UK different in this regard?
- tiatia 10y ago
  The question is, do people from Romania and Bulgaria need a visa? Looks to me they can not just move to the UK but maybe the UK has different agreements with this countries. Just checked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian_citizens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian... Looks like they don't need anything but a passport to go to the UK.