5 ms·

I think the appropriate outcome depends on whether they were going to be paid by the US institution. If you're going to get paid, you need an appropriate visa.

I think the appropriate outcome depends on whether they were going to be paid by the US institution. If you're going to get paid, you need an appropriate visa. Unfortunately some institutions don't understand this/don't want to understand this/tell you "it's fine, we do this all the time." But if you say the wrong thing at the border, you'll be denied entry and it'll get noted down for the next time you try and enter the country.

peferron 10y ago
Sure, but how does that apply to this article? He was going to get paid and had an appropriate visa.
- jobigoud 10y ago
  The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1. He didn't have one, his J1 is expired. His situation is peculiar because as a scholar there is an exception. But if it had been to, say, tech talk at a conference, you can't get paid. So I think it's relevant to the article because that's probably what the CBP agent was thinking. And the fact that he'd have been doing it for 30 years doesn't change anything. Otherwise as French we don't need a visa just to visit the US, we are on the visa waiver program (ESTA).
  - peferron 10y ago
    > The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1. No. There are plenty of situations where you can get paid in the USA without having a work visa. As you mentioned, the scholar in this article is one example. Another example: my spouse has a H-4, which is not a work visa, but has received employment authorization (EAD) and can get paid. Another example: athletes can enter the USA on a B-1, which is not a work visa, and get paid prize money. We could keep going, but the point is that a rule with too many exceptions stops being useful and just becomes a false statement. This led the first CBP officer to incorrectly detain the scholar in the article. This also led the author of the original comment I replied to to visibly stop reading the article halfway through, and post to HN that the scholar did not have an appropriate visa and that it was the university's fault, both of which are explicitly debunked at the end of the article.
laurent123456 10y ago
Apparently not as the policeman told him > that the official who examined my file was > "inexperienced" and did not know that certain activities, > including those related to research and education, > enjoyed an exceptional regime and could well be carried > out with A simple tourist visa." From what he wrote at the end of the article it's not clear at all why they've decided to control him.
- lawless123 10y ago
  They probably needed him to make sure their "Random checks" looked random enough.
- joncrocks 10y ago
  edited 'cos I was wrong. Seems you can get limited payment called an honorarium. There's some more details here: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Purpose%20Listings%20March%202014%20flier.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Pu... I've travelled to the US quite a few times on different types of visas (lived and worked there for a few years). It's important to know yourself what is and isn't allowed, as some people will try and tell you "things are fine, we've done it loads of times" when in fact they don't understand the restrictions properly, and it'll be recorded against you and not them when you get denied entry.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    That's my reading as well. An honorarium is sort of a funny thing because it's not really a payment, or at least that's the fiction. The theory is that it's more like a thank you gesture, very possibly at below market rates. Who knows what he actually said to CBP. If it was something to the effect of "Sure, I'm being paid for my speech," it's not hard to see this raising a flag. There really is a broader lesson here that has nothing to do with the current US president or the US in particular. Countries in general have a lot of rules about visitors working and what constitutes "working" from country to country. And many countries have rules about just about any business activities if you're on a tourist visa. ADDED: Furthermore re: "things are fine, we've done it loads of times" I don't get paid when I speak at events. But it's also the case that when I travel to Europe, I'm not sure I've ever been asked that question. It's usually "I'm attending a computer software conference" "in XYZ city" "I work for such and such" etc. If someone were getting paid, I could see it not coming up for years and suddenly it does for some reason and it's a problem.

peferron 10y ago

Sure, but how does that apply to this article? He was going to get paid and had an appropriate visa.

jobigoud 10y ago
The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1. He didn't have one, his J1 is expired. His situation is peculiar because as a scholar there is an exception. But if it had been to, say, tech talk at a conference, you can't get paid. So I think it's relevant to the article because that's probably what the CBP agent was thinking. And the fact that he'd have been doing it for 30 years doesn't change anything. Otherwise as French we don't need a visa just to visit the US, we are on the visa waiver program (ESTA).
- peferron 10y ago
  > The only appropriate visa to get paid is a work visa, like H1B, O1 or J1. No. There are plenty of situations where you can get paid in the USA without having a work visa. As you mentioned, the scholar in this article is one example. Another example: my spouse has a H-4, which is not a work visa, but has received employment authorization (EAD) and can get paid. Another example: athletes can enter the USA on a B-1, which is not a work visa, and get paid prize money. We could keep going, but the point is that a rule with too many exceptions stops being useful and just becomes a false statement. This led the first CBP officer to incorrectly detain the scholar in the article. This also led the author of the original comment I replied to to visibly stop reading the article halfway through, and post to HN that the scholar did not have an appropriate visa and that it was the university's fault, both of which are explicitly debunked at the end of the article.

laurent123456 10y ago

Apparently not as the policeman told him > that the official who examined my file was > "inexperienced" and did not know that certain activities, > including those related to research and education, > enjoyed an exceptional regime and could well be carried > out with A simple tourist visa." From what he wrote at the end of the article it's not clear at all why they've decided to control him.

lawless123 10y ago
They probably needed him to make sure their "Random checks" looked random enough.
joncrocks 10y ago
edited 'cos I was wrong. Seems you can get limited payment called an honorarium. There's some more details here: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Purpose%20Listings%20March%202014%20flier.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Pu... I've travelled to the US quite a few times on different types of visas (lived and worked there for a few years). It's important to know yourself what is and isn't allowed, as some people will try and tell you "things are fine, we've done it loads of times" when in fact they don't understand the restrictions properly, and it'll be recorded against you and not them when you get denied entry.
- ghaff 10y ago
  That's my reading as well. An honorarium is sort of a funny thing because it's not really a payment, or at least that's the fiction. The theory is that it's more like a thank you gesture, very possibly at below market rates. Who knows what he actually said to CBP. If it was something to the effect of "Sure, I'm being paid for my speech," it's not hard to see this raising a flag. There really is a broader lesson here that has nothing to do with the current US president or the US in particular. Countries in general have a lot of rules about visitors working and what constitutes "working" from country to country. And many countries have rules about just about any business activities if you're on a tourist visa. ADDED: Furthermore re: "things are fine, we've done it loads of times" I don't get paid when I speak at events. But it's also the case that when I travel to Europe, I'm not sure I've ever been asked that question. It's usually "I'm attending a computer software conference" "in XYZ city" "I work for such and such" etc. If someone were getting paid, I could see it not coming up for years and suddenly it does for some reason and it's a problem.