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Some background in his wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_scientist%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_s

Some background in his wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_scientist%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid_%28computer_scientis... when they fired him it was nine days before the IPO and he lost out on $10M. The opinion from the appeals court is here http://www.gmsr.com/writing/scw-reid.pdf http://www.gmsr.com/writing/scw-reid.pdf he offered a statistical analysis of promotion and compensation that indicated a pattern of discrimination against older employees, Google did not offer their own statistical analysis. He has more than hearsay or "stray comments" driving the case.

georgieporgie 16y ago
Thank you for providing significantly more information than a professional journalist did.
nailer 16y ago
> offered a statistical analysis of promotion and compensation that indicated a pattern of discrimination against older employees How could statistics possibly indicate causality?
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I don't think he has to prove causality, it is more that if he manages to sow enough doubt that he was wrongfully terminated by showing that in the statistics he is an outlier that it will bolster his case.
  - nailer 16y ago
    That saddens me. The law should be based on fact and reason.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      The law is based on fact and reason. Judges are there to interpret the law and apply it to real life situations which are gray instead of black or white.
      - nailer 16y ago
        In that case, why bother showing statistics demonstrating correlation unless there's actual evidence to back up some kind of causation? A high percentage of people with certain characteristics being fired or having poor bonuses is factually not equivalent to those characteristics being the basis for those people being fired. There are well established relationships between membership of particular groups and academic performance. It is generally not accepted to say that those people are being discriminated against when marking due to their ethnic groups unless there is specific evidence to prove that such wrongdoing has occurred. In fact, generally accepted reason behind the statistics in one not of discrimination, but of high rates of poverty amongst those groups causing other problems.
        jacquesm 16y ago
        The statistics are not the only evidence, they are part of the evidence, and together with that other evidence present the case. It's like being blindfolded and strapped to a chair and having to decided if something is on fire. You don't have any direct evidence. But you can smell smoke, you can feel the heat on your face and you hear a crackling noise. Now none of those by themselves are proof, but together they add up to a preponderance of evidence, and you (the judge) may (rightfully) conclude that there is indeed something on fire. Either that or someone is going to great extremes to trick you. Lawsuits like these are rarely decided on absolutes. Now, the other side can play the same game, they can show partial evidence to the contrary. They can suggest that the noise you hear is made by the wind playing with a plastic bag, the heat is the sun on your face and the smoke smell is because last week there was a fire but there is none today. It wouldn't take a smart judge very long to ask some follow up questions to figure out who has it right and who is fibbing. When it's a really close call or when both sides 'have a point' the judge may order mediation. More likely the parties will then settle because neither will want the case to be decided on such a slim margin because a ruling 'against' could be much more costly than a settlement.
        nailer 16y ago
        Thinking about it, you're right. My statistics brain shouted 'eeek, correlation != causation' but you make a pretty compelling argument with the fire analogy. Using a programming analogy, you could think of a bayesian spam classifier. The word 'viagra' might not on it's own constitute spam, but 'viagra' 'hard p3n1s' and 'meds' scores enough to be safely considered spam. Consider my mind changed.
  - pmccool 16y ago
    It's worth pointing out that, being a civil case, he only need show something to be true on the preponderance of the evidence.

georgieporgie 16y ago

Thank you for providing significantly more information than a professional journalist did.

nailer 16y ago

> offered a statistical analysis of promotion and compensation that indicated a pattern of discrimination against older employees How could statistics possibly indicate causality?

jacquesm 16y ago
I don't think he has to prove causality, it is more that if he manages to sow enough doubt that he was wrongfully terminated by showing that in the statistics he is an outlier that it will bolster his case.
- nailer 16y ago
  That saddens me. The law should be based on fact and reason.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    The law is based on fact and reason. Judges are there to interpret the law and apply it to real life situations which are gray instead of black or white.
    - nailer 16y ago
      In that case, why bother showing statistics demonstrating correlation unless there's actual evidence to back up some kind of causation? A high percentage of people with certain characteristics being fired or having poor bonuses is factually not equivalent to those characteristics being the basis for those people being fired. There are well established relationships between membership of particular groups and academic performance. It is generally not accepted to say that those people are being discriminated against when marking due to their ethnic groups unless there is specific evidence to prove that such wrongdoing has occurred. In fact, generally accepted reason behind the statistics in one not of discrimination, but of high rates of poverty amongst those groups causing other problems.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        The statistics are not the only evidence, they are part of the evidence, and together with that other evidence present the case. It's like being blindfolded and strapped to a chair and having to decided if something is on fire. You don't have any direct evidence. But you can smell smoke, you can feel the heat on your face and you hear a crackling noise. Now none of those by themselves are proof, but together they add up to a preponderance of evidence, and you (the judge) may (rightfully) conclude that there is indeed something on fire. Either that or someone is going to great extremes to trick you. Lawsuits like these are rarely decided on absolutes. Now, the other side can play the same game, they can show partial evidence to the contrary. They can suggest that the noise you hear is made by the wind playing with a plastic bag, the heat is the sun on your face and the smoke smell is because last week there was a fire but there is none today. It wouldn't take a smart judge very long to ask some follow up questions to figure out who has it right and who is fibbing. When it's a really close call or when both sides 'have a point' the judge may order mediation. More likely the parties will then settle because neither will want the case to be decided on such a slim margin because a ruling 'against' could be much more costly than a settlement.
        nailer 16y ago
        Thinking about it, you're right. My statistics brain shouted 'eeek, correlation != causation' but you make a pretty compelling argument with the fire analogy. Using a programming analogy, you could think of a bayesian spam classifier. The word 'viagra' might not on it's own constitute spam, but 'viagra' 'hard p3n1s' and 'meds' scores enough to be safely considered spam. Consider my mind changed.
- pmccool 16y ago
  It's worth pointing out that, being a civil case, he only need show something to be true on the preponderance of the evidence.