6 ms·

This all reminds me a fair bit of the transition from VB6 to Visual Basic .NET from about 15 years back. There was a whole lot of wailing about how the changes

This all reminds me a fair bit of the transition from VB6 to Visual Basic .NET from about 15 years back. There was a whole lot of wailing about how the changes were unnecessary, and a whole lot of complaining about how expensive it was going to be to rewrite all this existing code. It was all very visible, but if you paid too much attention to it you'd fail to notice that there was also a huge and quiet majority of people who recognized that VB.NET was a much more capable language that allowed people to easily go places they could barely have dreamed of with VB6. I suspect those people were so quiet because they were too busy doing useful work like keeping their toolchain up-to-date to spend much time griping on the Internet. So on the Python side of things, it's the exact same story. I see plenty of blog posts and suchlike by people who are still upset about Python 3, but I'm hard pressed to met someone who feels that way in real life. Most folks I know made the switch ages ago, and are a bit mystified that this whole thing is still such a big deal.

Grue3 10y ago
Yeah, except VB6 was everywhere and I don't remember the last time I heard about Visual Basic .NET. Perhaps there's a lesson here. FWIW, I've yet to work at a place that uses Python 3 in production, or has any concrete plans to transition.
- bunderbunder 10y ago
  C# does some useful stuff that VB.NET doesn't, while the only thing VB really did better than C# is COM without interop libraries. So VB.NET ended up just being a bridge to C#, so it died out pretty quickly. I still encounter it a fair bit, but it's usually just the oldest modules in a codebase where everything new is in C#.
- stillsut 10y ago
  This. I actually use VB.NET at work to strong effect. It enables us to hire domain experts (insurance) and have them working as developers in a week. And you get the full .NET compatibility to networking for updates, PDF libraries, crypto, etc. Everything you'd need for a first class desktop app, with much greater freedom on who you can hire (compared to Java, c#, etc). But I'd never dream of wanting to build a "weekend app" in VB.NET anymore. You're basically stuck with a very heavy IDE, to fill in boilerplate and do builds. And there's lots of framework churn here so a template you'd have from 2011 would probably be a huge pain to try and implement today. Never used VB6, but from what I understand it, it was a huge productivity tool: any small task could get coded up and shipped in a day. That's how I think of python right now, I don't want to see it go the way VB. We already have enough enterprise ready type languages, not everyone has to be one.

Grue3 10y ago

Yeah, except VB6 was everywhere and I don't remember the last time I heard about Visual Basic .NET. Perhaps there's a lesson here. FWIW, I've yet to work at a place that uses Python 3 in production, or has any concrete plans to transition.

bunderbunder 10y ago
C# does some useful stuff that VB.NET doesn't, while the only thing VB really did better than C# is COM without interop libraries. So VB.NET ended up just being a bridge to C#, so it died out pretty quickly. I still encounter it a fair bit, but it's usually just the oldest modules in a codebase where everything new is in C#.
stillsut 10y ago
This. I actually use VB.NET at work to strong effect. It enables us to hire domain experts (insurance) and have them working as developers in a week. And you get the full .NET compatibility to networking for updates, PDF libraries, crypto, etc. Everything you'd need for a first class desktop app, with much greater freedom on who you can hire (compared to Java, c#, etc). But I'd never dream of wanting to build a "weekend app" in VB.NET anymore. You're basically stuck with a very heavy IDE, to fill in boilerplate and do builds. And there's lots of framework churn here so a template you'd have from 2011 would probably be a huge pain to try and implement today. Never used VB6, but from what I understand it, it was a huge productivity tool: any small task could get coded up and shipped in a day. That's how I think of python right now, I don't want to see it go the way VB. We already have enough enterprise ready type languages, not everyone has to be one.