4 ms·

This is the topic I've been most worried about. My only solace is the brilliance of the Framers of the U.S. Constitution. They planned for a wide variety of gov

by robg 10y ago

This is the topic I've been most worried about. My only solace is the brilliance of the Framers of the U.S. Constitution. They planned for a wide variety of government failures, knowing full well of how democracies fail. The freedom of the press and the Judiciary would seem to be strong firewalls, even under AI run amok or distorted toward nefarious ends. We shall see...

PaulKeeble 10y ago
The freedom of journalism likely makes AI informed press just as protected. But that press can be used to control what people know and trigger them into acting to undo democracy defenses. Its happening all over the world already, people are already crying for democracy to be reduced in their countries after AI based analytics companies have spread fake news and targeted advertising. Its already extremely effective even though people are fully aware of its existance.
- macawfish 10y ago
  I see you've just read the article on Robert Mercer :)
  - PaulKeeble 10y ago
    I have been worried about how the press is generating fake news or at the very least using the main stream news to trigger people into becoming angry so they buy news papers/click on their articles for a while. The Mercer article was interesting for explaining the who of it but I knew it must be happening before and the mechanism is clearly based on wide data more than likely from facebook. Its been a common trend of the past few years, the impact of media is vast and its widely subverting democracy right now and I am convinced its a grave threat to our societies but not sure how to stop it without doing equally bad things.
Torn 10y ago
Freedom of the press is under attack by the Trump administration. From labelling critics as 'fake news' to banning journalists from news briefings[1] - it's a pretty alarming time for democracy. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/media/cnn-blocked-white-house-gaggle/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/media/cnn-blocked-white-hous...
- Wonderdonkey 10y ago
  Freedom of press will easily survive an ephemeron like Trump, maybe even come out stronger for the short-term tribulation. He's superficial. The more insidious statist leaders create deep, subtle, lasting harm. It's the Bushes and Obamas who set up the largest illegal domestic spying operation ever and got away with it because, even when called out, people trusted them not to commit evil acts with the store of data they were collecting. It was Obama who routinely violated journalists rights yet continued to be generally supported by mainstream news outlets. That genre of politician will be making a comeback after Trump, and that's when people will start feeling comfortable again and go along with anything that promises stability and safety. And I believe that's the environment where the type of manipulation described in this article ("liberal paternalism") can really thrive.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    The press is being undermined by its economics. Trump just smelled weakness and attacked.
- insickness 10y ago
  Legacy media was biased against Trump before the election and they still are. They've done nothing but try to take him down. It's to the point that anybody who doesn't already hate Trump tunes them out. God forbid Trump actually does something bad, it will be the boy who cried wolf.
  - surfaceTensi0n 10y ago
    >God forbid Trump actually does something bad Uhm, is this a joke? How about having an anti-Semite for a chief strategist[0]? Or selecting a woefully unqualified campaign donor to to lead the Department of Education[1]? How are you feeling about transgender rights[2]? (And let's not pretend this is just about bathrooms -- if you can't use the bathroom in public, you can't go out in public.) Maybe you care about sexual assault[3]? [0] - http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign-ceo-steve-bannon-accused-anti-semitic-remarks-ex-n638731 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign... [1] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/18/six-astonishing-things-betsy-devos-said-and-refused-to-say-at-her-confirmation-hearing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/... [2] - http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/516837258/5-questions-about-the-trump-administrations-new-transgender-student-guidance http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/516837258/5-questi... [3] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-havin...
alphonsegaston 10y ago
The history of American democracy is the rebellion of the marginalized against the grotesque hypocrisy of our stated values, faced as they are with the reality of their social conditions. The only reason we have any freedoms is because the oppressed weaponized the noblesse oblige of a bunch of slave owners to carve it out for themselves. There is no reading of American history where the press or the judiciary function as some conduit for the immortal "brilliance" or protection of the framers. One needs to only look at recent history, the condition of minorities in modern carceral state, being lied into war in Iraq, to recognize this. Further back, the judiciary was used to justify segregation, eugenics, and mass disenfranchisement. And the history of the press speaks quite bleakly for itself. This kind of mentality, where individual agency is sacrificed in favor of "mythic" protections, is a big part of the reason things have become so precarious.
- jnbiche 10y ago
  Hippocracy: government by or of the horses? It's actually spelled hypocrisy, but that's a fun misspelling for those who know Greek roots. Otherwise, I think a huge reason for our moral progress in the US, slow and unsteady though it may be, is having a document like the condition to point to when advocating for better conditions.
  - alphonsegaston 10y ago
    Pedantry about spelling on a message board will certainly save the republic. Just like literacy tests protected voting rights. The constitution enshrined the diminishment of blacks' humanity, had to be ammended to extend the franchise to women, and still says that slavery is fine under the right circumstances. It's as much a reflection of our failings as it is our ambitions, and has been wielded violently to uphold or change the status quo. It has no inherent trajectory towards progress other than the one we actively embody.
    - rtx 10y ago
      Constitutions come and go. Republics are saved by interests.
knz 10y ago
> This is the topic I've been most worried about. My only solace is the brilliance of the Framers of the U.S. Constitution. Perspective matters when considering the brilliance of the Framers. The debate over the electoral college and the effectiveness of a voter in rural Wyoming vs one in urban LA is a great example. Personally I think they got a lot right but that the US is a vastly different country now. How do you make adjustments or further codify rights without disenfranchising others though? In theory through amendments but that seems unlikely in the current political environment.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  I think we'd have a lot less debate over the electoral college if we hadn't capped the size of the House of Representatives in the 1900s.

by robg 10y ago

PaulKeeble 10y ago

The freedom of journalism likely makes AI informed press just as protected. But that press can be used to control what people know and trigger them into acting to undo democracy defenses. Its happening all over the world already, people are already crying for democracy to be reduced in their countries after AI based analytics companies have spread fake news and targeted advertising. Its already extremely effective even though people are fully aware of its existance.

macawfish 10y ago
I see you've just read the article on Robert Mercer :)
- PaulKeeble 10y ago
  I have been worried about how the press is generating fake news or at the very least using the main stream news to trigger people into becoming angry so they buy news papers/click on their articles for a while. The Mercer article was interesting for explaining the who of it but I knew it must be happening before and the mechanism is clearly based on wide data more than likely from facebook. Its been a common trend of the past few years, the impact of media is vast and its widely subverting democracy right now and I am convinced its a grave threat to our societies but not sure how to stop it without doing equally bad things.

Torn 10y ago

Freedom of the press is under attack by the Trump administration. From labelling critics as 'fake news' to banning journalists from news briefings[1] - it's a pretty alarming time for democracy. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/media/cnn-blocked-white-house-gaggle/ http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/media/cnn-blocked-white-hous...

Wonderdonkey 10y ago
Freedom of press will easily survive an ephemeron like Trump, maybe even come out stronger for the short-term tribulation. He's superficial. The more insidious statist leaders create deep, subtle, lasting harm. It's the Bushes and Obamas who set up the largest illegal domestic spying operation ever and got away with it because, even when called out, people trusted them not to commit evil acts with the store of data they were collecting. It was Obama who routinely violated journalists rights yet continued to be generally supported by mainstream news outlets. That genre of politician will be making a comeback after Trump, and that's when people will start feeling comfortable again and go along with anything that promises stability and safety. And I believe that's the environment where the type of manipulation described in this article ("liberal paternalism") can really thrive.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  The press is being undermined by its economics. Trump just smelled weakness and attacked.
insickness 10y ago
Legacy media was biased against Trump before the election and they still are. They've done nothing but try to take him down. It's to the point that anybody who doesn't already hate Trump tunes them out. God forbid Trump actually does something bad, it will be the boy who cried wolf.
- surfaceTensi0n 10y ago
  >God forbid Trump actually does something bad Uhm, is this a joke? How about having an anti-Semite for a chief strategist[0]? Or selecting a woefully unqualified campaign donor to to lead the Department of Education[1]? How are you feeling about transgender rights[2]? (And let's not pretend this is just about bathrooms -- if you can't use the bathroom in public, you can't go out in public.) Maybe you care about sexual assault[3]? [0] - http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign-ceo-steve-bannon-accused-anti-semitic-remarks-ex-n638731 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign... [1] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/18/six-astonishing-things-betsy-devos-said-and-refused-to-say-at-her-confirmation-hearing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/... [2] - http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/516837258/5-questions-about-the-trump-administrations-new-transgender-student-guidance http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/516837258/5-questi... [3] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-havin...

alphonsegaston 10y ago

The history of American democracy is the rebellion of the marginalized against the grotesque hypocrisy of our stated values, faced as they are with the reality of their social conditions. The only reason we have any freedoms is because the oppressed weaponized the noblesse oblige of a bunch of slave owners to carve it out for themselves. There is no reading of American history where the press or the judiciary function as some conduit for the immortal "brilliance" or protection of the framers. One needs to only look at recent history, the condition of minorities in modern carceral state, being lied into war in Iraq, to recognize this. Further back, the judiciary was used to justify segregation, eugenics, and mass disenfranchisement. And the history of the press speaks quite bleakly for itself. This kind of mentality, where individual agency is sacrificed in favor of "mythic" protections, is a big part of the reason things have become so precarious.

jnbiche 10y ago
Hippocracy: government by or of the horses? It's actually spelled hypocrisy, but that's a fun misspelling for those who know Greek roots. Otherwise, I think a huge reason for our moral progress in the US, slow and unsteady though it may be, is having a document like the condition to point to when advocating for better conditions.
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  Pedantry about spelling on a message board will certainly save the republic. Just like literacy tests protected voting rights. The constitution enshrined the diminishment of blacks' humanity, had to be ammended to extend the franchise to women, and still says that slavery is fine under the right circumstances. It's as much a reflection of our failings as it is our ambitions, and has been wielded violently to uphold or change the status quo. It has no inherent trajectory towards progress other than the one we actively embody.
  - rtx 10y ago
    Constitutions come and go. Republics are saved by interests.

knz 10y ago

> This is the topic I've been most worried about. My only solace is the brilliance of the Framers of the U.S. Constitution. Perspective matters when considering the brilliance of the Framers. The debate over the electoral college and the effectiveness of a voter in rural Wyoming vs one in urban LA is a great example. Personally I think they got a lot right but that the US is a vastly different country now. How do you make adjustments or further codify rights without disenfranchising others though? In theory through amendments but that seems unlikely in the current political environment.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
I think we'd have a lot less debate over the electoral college if we hadn't capped the size of the House of Representatives in the 1900s.