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Thanks for thoughtful reply. I think I agree with all what you said. I am not the omg Trump is ending the world type, I see him as using the same "tools" as oth

Thanks for thoughtful reply. I think I agree with all what you said. I am not the omg Trump is ending the world type, I see him as using the same "tools" as other political parties etc. To me the real question becomes what happens when the government uses the big data to "sell" ideas to the public. That 5% swing can be used in all sorts of ways.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
It would surprise me if the government doesn't already attempt to use such techniques to manipulate the public. I just suspect they do it badly, because while Trump/Obama/Hillary can fire people who perform badly and hire the best people for the role, the civil service cannot. They certainly engage in propaganda in general, however, mainly by going directly through the media. The thing here which is actually interesting is not the use of propaganda. What's interesting is people outside the cathedral using it effectively. https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/01/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/01/gentle... (Or a shorter description: http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm )
- yowlingcat 10y ago
  I've always heard Moldbug referenced indirectly, but I never made the more direct connection, nor the Taylor commentary. Thanks. I suppose the question here is whether it is possible to escape the Cathedral; that is, whether the Cathedral is a panopticon whose construction was long ago completed and within which we already reside.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    The trumpocalypse suggests that we may be able to escape the cathedral. But the very nature of the trumpocalypse suggests that if we escape the cathedral via democratic means, the result might be something even scarier than rule by the cathedral/administrative state/etc. I suspect a more likely outcome - given the centralization of social media - is that the cathedral will succeed in suppressing the upstarts. Twitter, in spite of Trump's use of it, is certainly attempting to do so. Zuckerberg seems to have briefly resisted, but now seems to have seen the light.
    - Tycho 10y ago
      The next evolutionary phase of the Cathedral could be a Zuckerberg presidency. It may be his reward for "solving" (in the future) the problem of extra-Cathedral news consumption. But it's early days.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

It would surprise me if the government doesn't already attempt to use such techniques to manipulate the public. I just suspect they do it badly, because while Trump/Obama/Hillary can fire people who perform badly and hire the best people for the role, the civil service cannot. They certainly engage in propaganda in general, however, mainly by going directly through the media. The thing here which is actually interesting is not the use of propaganda. What's interesting is people outside the cathedral using it effectively. https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/01/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/01/gentle... (Or a shorter description: http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm )

yowlingcat 10y ago
I've always heard Moldbug referenced indirectly, but I never made the more direct connection, nor the Taylor commentary. Thanks. I suppose the question here is whether it is possible to escape the Cathedral; that is, whether the Cathedral is a panopticon whose construction was long ago completed and within which we already reside.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  The trumpocalypse suggests that we may be able to escape the cathedral. But the very nature of the trumpocalypse suggests that if we escape the cathedral via democratic means, the result might be something even scarier than rule by the cathedral/administrative state/etc. I suspect a more likely outcome - given the centralization of social media - is that the cathedral will succeed in suppressing the upstarts. Twitter, in spite of Trump's use of it, is certainly attempting to do so. Zuckerberg seems to have briefly resisted, but now seems to have seen the light.
  - Tycho 10y ago
    The next evolutionary phase of the Cathedral could be a Zuckerberg presidency. It may be his reward for "solving" (in the future) the problem of extra-Cathedral news consumption. But it's early days.