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There's a huge difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. There's no real way to engage with somebody who willfully tries to remove that distance. It i

• Waterluvian 10y ago
  The gymnastics can be simple if you distill it down to, "white looking people in the middle east" enemy of my enemy and whatnot.
• Strom 10y ago
  One simple way to be anti-semitic and pro-Israel is to live by the enemy of my enemy is my friend and use them for proxy propaganda/wars.
• reitanqild 10y ago
  There's a huge difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. Practically speaking I'd say it is less than you think. Anti-Zionism is often just a proxy for hating jews who live in Israel. There's no real way to engage with somebody who willfully tries to remove that distance. I could say something similar the other way but that would be to accept your invitation to a framing competition. Actually this whole: there is no way to engage with x is a problem IMO.
  • owebmaster 10y ago
    The same way anti anti zionism is just plain old islamophobia and hate against palestines
  • huac 10y ago
    > Anti-Zionism is often just a proxy for hating jews who live in Israel. I mean, do you include Israeli settlers within 'jews who live in Israel'? When people argue that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, and must be a priori excluded, then debate and engagement is impossible. There is a difference between criticizing Jews and criticizing Israel, and erasing that difference necessarily forecloses on conversation.
    • reitanqild 10y ago
      When people argue that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic Just FTR, I'm not trying to argue that. Criticising Israel (or for that matter, Jews) should be totally ok.
  • ComputerGuru 10y ago
    > Anti-Zionism is often just a proxy for hating jews who live in Israel. A) more important than Israel is the tens of thousands taking it upon themselves to singlehandedly expand Israelly territory by we establishing settlements and outposts on internationally-recognized Palestinian land (with the support of Bibi). B) I doubt you'd find an anti-zionist who would wholly disagree with that statement. Isn't living in Israel a fundamental part of being Zionist, after all? I think you have something foundational mixed up, because you are conflating absolutely disjunct issues. If one perceives the state of Israel to be in a constant moral, political, and physical state or aggression against Palestinians then that hate is part and parcel with that belief and there's nothing wrong with saying so. Let's try again: people that say they hate Muslim fundamentalists is just a way of saying they hate Muslims who live in ISIS and Al-Qaeda controlled regions. So? I'm sure you would argue that is absolutely not the same as having something fundamentally against Muslims themselves. How is hating the Zionist movement and those contributing to it in any way parallel to being an anti-Semite that does not like people of Jewish origin/faith that have nothing to do with Zionism (of which there are plenty). Also, please note that anti-zionism would not distinguish between a Jewish zionist or a Christian one. And they have just as much gripe with the thousands of Ethiopians who make up a good chunk of the on-the-ground IDF forces, most of whom are not Jewish (except in name/technicality), and are regularly brought in to Israel to combat the disparity in growth rates in the Arab-Israeli vs "Jewish"-Israeli passport-holding population (Jewish is in quotes because it's really about non-Arab (Christian or Muslim) more than it is about being of Jewish descent/religion).
• smsm42 10y ago
  In theory yes, there is. In practice, when you look at actual people and survey their actual opinions - turn out no, there actually isn't much. Most pupportedly "anti-Zionist" movements are thoroughly infected with plain old garden variety antisemitism. E.g. see http://david-collier.com/psc-riddled-antisemitism/ http://david-collier.com/psc-riddled-antisemitism/