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I think the issue is exploitation to stoke hatred against minorities and women. Have you ever read the comments section on Breitbart? It's the new normalized St

I think the issue is exploitation to stoke hatred against minorities and women. Have you ever read the comments section on Breitbart? It's the new normalized Stormfront.

eggy 10y ago
Yes, I am fully aware of the vitriol, and again, not making a case for it. I am simply trying to be objective on the way manipulating media is perceived by the public and press. The ends don't justify the means for either side is what I am saying, and how surprised you don't find any cautionary tales from the other campaigns mentioned. I am a privacy advocate, and since taking media classes at NYU in 1982, I have always known this was going to happen - control of the media and public mindset. Polarization of the US into just a two-party system has allowed this to happen. It's good guys vs. bad guys simplicity - a much easier sell on the public for either side.
- jackmott 10y ago
  We perceive if differently because its being used by evil people now, for the love of science. Are you a shill? you sound like a shill. The world is burning and you are harping on some edge point about "Obama did it too" fuck I hate this place.
  - Jun8 10y ago
    It's not an "edge point". One can discuss the inherent moral goodness or lack thereof of using a certain tool, whereas you seem to subscribe to the view that something is bad if "evil people" use it and not otherwise. With similar train of thought one may argue that nuclear weapons are good for the US to have but not for an evil empire such as the USSR (actual argument that was used by people), or a gun is bad when it's used by a criminal but good when used by someone in self-defense. You see that in these cases one can discuss the merits of the application but also argue about the whole ban of the tool itself, irregardless of who's using it. Also if you hate HN noone is forcing you to be here.
    - imgabe 10y ago
      A tool cannot have inherent moral goodness or lack it. A tool is inanimate. It is amoral. By itself it does nothing. Only humans can put tools to uses that may be good or bad for other humans. Morality does not exist outside of human perception.
      - mschuster91 10y ago
        > A tool cannot have inherent moral goodness or lack it. I disagree. A registry of Muslim/Jewish/... people is a tool with inherent discrimination, which has next to no known good use for society. Only for evil.
        67726e 10y ago
        The tool would be a database, the use is a registry. Also, have you never heard of a census?
        mschuster91 10y ago
        > Also, have you never heard of a census? In a proper census you do not collect proven-sensitive information together with identifiable information, that's the difference. A database with a direct link between identity and religion can only be used for nefarious purposes.
        PuercoPop 10y ago
        They mentioned the census as a use of database (tool) that is not immoral not as being equivalent to a Muslim/Jewish registry. You seem to be missing their point
  - purple-again 10y ago
    The world isn't burning. The opposing party won this election cycle and is using the power it was granted to mold the nation to their view of how our society should look. It's a peaceful transfer of power and a modern miracle, as these things typically were accomplished with blood and fire throughout most of human history. In 2-4-6-8 years we will have te opportunity to peacefully transfer power back to another group that has a vision closer to yours. Assuming the majority of regions within our union agree with you. If that's not a system you can live with, fight for a weaker federal government and stronger state rights.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      > fight for a weaker federal government and stronger state rights. In my experience, the left would be strongly opposed to state rights as their is only One True Way to do things; only certain kinds of diversity are good.
      - heurist 10y ago
        Scientific consensus can be divided and misguided but generally indicates a single direction. The main reason the left avoids leaving important decisions to states is that state representation is biased toward the people living outside of cities. Even when they're the minority with lower economic output they have a bigger say in how a state is represented in state and federal congress. Republicans dominate state governments and have non-urban demographics wrapped up right now, so of course democrats will prefer to not give them more power.
      - coding123 10y ago
        Well it seems the right has the same opinion... Are they going to ask Cali, aruz, new Mexico and Texas if they want a wall? Are they going to ask each state how many nukes they want to build?
    - enraged_camel 10y ago
      I think you're overly optimistic about things being peaceful. America is more politically polarized than ever, and becoming even more so every day. I fully expect shit to hit the fan soon. There is, after all, historical precedent for it.
  - sctb 10y ago
    Please don't accuse others of shilling. We have much more of a shillaccusation problem on Hacker News than actual shillage.
facepalm 10y ago
Is it fair to judge a web site by their comments section? I'm sure "The Guardian" or even Hacker News get pretty nasty comments, too. You could demand censorship, but maybe some people simply are against it.
- throwaway_374 10y ago
  Oh it's absolutely fair when there are calls for genocide against an entire people. Do you really want me to perform a statistical analysis on Breitbart comments with the word "muslim" or "black" or "jew"? Come on now, don't insult my intelligence - we're all smart people here.
  - facepalm 10y ago
    I haven't looked at their comments - but sure, why not make such an analysis? What do you mean by "we are all smart people here" - everybody knows the earth is flat? Edit: perhaps you could at least provide a link to a typical Breitbart comment section, full of hatred and calls for genocide?

I think the issue is exploitation to stoke hatred against minorities and women. Have you ever read the comments section on Breitbart? It's the new normalized Stormfront.

eggy 10y ago

Yes, I am fully aware of the vitriol, and again, not making a case for it. I am simply trying to be objective on the way manipulating media is perceived by the public and press. The ends don't justify the means for either side is what I am saying, and how surprised you don't find any cautionary tales from the other campaigns mentioned. I am a privacy advocate, and since taking media classes at NYU in 1982, I have always known this was going to happen - control of the media and public mindset. Polarization of the US into just a two-party system has allowed this to happen. It's good guys vs. bad guys simplicity - a much easier sell on the public for either side.

jackmott 10y ago
We perceive if differently because its being used by evil people now, for the love of science. Are you a shill? you sound like a shill. The world is burning and you are harping on some edge point about "Obama did it too" fuck I hate this place.
- Jun8 10y ago
  It's not an "edge point". One can discuss the inherent moral goodness or lack thereof of using a certain tool, whereas you seem to subscribe to the view that something is bad if "evil people" use it and not otherwise. With similar train of thought one may argue that nuclear weapons are good for the US to have but not for an evil empire such as the USSR (actual argument that was used by people), or a gun is bad when it's used by a criminal but good when used by someone in self-defense. You see that in these cases one can discuss the merits of the application but also argue about the whole ban of the tool itself, irregardless of who's using it. Also if you hate HN noone is forcing you to be here.
  - imgabe 10y ago
    A tool cannot have inherent moral goodness or lack it. A tool is inanimate. It is amoral. By itself it does nothing. Only humans can put tools to uses that may be good or bad for other humans. Morality does not exist outside of human perception.
    - mschuster91 10y ago
      > A tool cannot have inherent moral goodness or lack it. I disagree. A registry of Muslim/Jewish/... people is a tool with inherent discrimination, which has next to no known good use for society. Only for evil.
      - 67726e 10y ago
        The tool would be a database, the use is a registry. Also, have you never heard of a census?
        mschuster91 10y ago
        > Also, have you never heard of a census? In a proper census you do not collect proven-sensitive information together with identifiable information, that's the difference. A database with a direct link between identity and religion can only be used for nefarious purposes.
        PuercoPop 10y ago
        They mentioned the census as a use of database (tool) that is not immoral not as being equivalent to a Muslim/Jewish registry. You seem to be missing their point
- purple-again 10y ago
  The world isn't burning. The opposing party won this election cycle and is using the power it was granted to mold the nation to their view of how our society should look. It's a peaceful transfer of power and a modern miracle, as these things typically were accomplished with blood and fire throughout most of human history. In 2-4-6-8 years we will have te opportunity to peacefully transfer power back to another group that has a vision closer to yours. Assuming the majority of regions within our union agree with you. If that's not a system you can live with, fight for a weaker federal government and stronger state rights.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    > fight for a weaker federal government and stronger state rights. In my experience, the left would be strongly opposed to state rights as their is only One True Way to do things; only certain kinds of diversity are good.
    - heurist 10y ago
      Scientific consensus can be divided and misguided but generally indicates a single direction. The main reason the left avoids leaving important decisions to states is that state representation is biased toward the people living outside of cities. Even when they're the minority with lower economic output they have a bigger say in how a state is represented in state and federal congress. Republicans dominate state governments and have non-urban demographics wrapped up right now, so of course democrats will prefer to not give them more power.
    - coding123 10y ago
      Well it seems the right has the same opinion... Are they going to ask Cali, aruz, new Mexico and Texas if they want a wall? Are they going to ask each state how many nukes they want to build?
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    I think you're overly optimistic about things being peaceful. America is more politically polarized than ever, and becoming even more so every day. I fully expect shit to hit the fan soon. There is, after all, historical precedent for it.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please don't accuse others of shilling. We have much more of a shillaccusation problem on Hacker News than actual shillage.

facepalm 10y ago

Is it fair to judge a web site by their comments section? I'm sure "The Guardian" or even Hacker News get pretty nasty comments, too. You could demand censorship, but maybe some people simply are against it.

throwaway_374 10y ago
Oh it's absolutely fair when there are calls for genocide against an entire people. Do you really want me to perform a statistical analysis on Breitbart comments with the word "muslim" or "black" or "jew"? Come on now, don't insult my intelligence - we're all smart people here.
- facepalm 10y ago
  I haven't looked at their comments - but sure, why not make such an analysis? What do you mean by "we are all smart people here" - everybody knows the earth is flat? Edit: perhaps you could at least provide a link to a typical Breitbart comment section, full of hatred and calls for genocide?