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> Dither was developed precisely because naively interpolated or truncated 16-bit audio is audibly inferior to a 24-bit source. Dither was developed because it

> Dither was developed precisely because naively interpolated or truncated 16-bit audio is audibly inferior to a 24-bit source. Dither was developed because it's technically better. Audibly inferior though? Perhaps, with utterly exceptional source material (e.g. test tones) and when the output gain is high enough for peaks levels to be uncomfortably loud. In reality, many recording studios have a higher ambient noise level than the dither, making it redundant in practice — the lower bits are already noise, so audible quantisation artefacts weren't going to happen anyway. That said, dithering is pretty much never worse than not dithering, and almost all tools offer it, so everyone does it. 24 bits is important because it gives the recording engineer ample headroom, and it gives the mixing and mastering engineers confidence that every last significant bit caught by the microphone will survive numerous transformation stages intact. Once the final master is decimated to 16 bits per sample, you know that your 16 bits will be as good as they could have been.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
A high noise floor is not even close to being the same as dither, never mind noise shaping. Have you actually heard the difference between simple dither, noise-shaped dither, and non-dithered 16-bit audio? A test tone is the worst possible way to hear what they do. 24-bit audio is used because you want as clean a source as possible. This also applies to mastering for output at the other end. With the exception of CD and MP3, most audio is delivered as 24-bit WAV at either 44.1, 48, 88, or 96k. Even vinyl is usually cut from a 24-bit master. Here's a nice overview of what mastering engineers deliver in practice: https://theproaudiofiles.com/audio-mastering-format-and-delivery-guide-2014/ https://theproaudiofiles.com/audio-mastering-format-and-deli...
- sjwright 10y ago
  > A high noise floor is not even close to being the same as dither, never mind noise shaping. Dither is noise. Well chosen noise, very quiet noise, but noise nonetheless. Whether the signal is noisy for one reason or another, the consequences at the point of decimation/quantization are the same. Either way the least significant bits are filled with stochastic values and the desired signal isn't plagued with quantization noise artifacts. > Have you actually heard the difference between simple dither, noise-shaped dither, and non-dithered 16-bit audio? A test tone is the worst possible way to hear what they do. ...is the sort of thing someone who hasn't done a blinded listening test would say. Stop assuming the commercially successful "experts" are also technical experts, because few are. I doubt more than a tiny fraction could describe what a least significant digit is. (Cutting vinyl, a hilariously lossy process that requires compression and EQ to avoid the needle jumping the groove, doesn't need a 24 bit master. Barely needs a 14 bit master. But since an extra hundred megabytes of really accurate noise floor doesn't make anything worse, they do it anyway.)

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago

A high noise floor is not even close to being the same as dither, never mind noise shaping. Have you actually heard the difference between simple dither, noise-shaped dither, and non-dithered 16-bit audio? A test tone is the worst possible way to hear what they do. 24-bit audio is used because you want as clean a source as possible. This also applies to mastering for output at the other end. With the exception of CD and MP3, most audio is delivered as 24-bit WAV at either 44.1, 48, 88, or 96k. Even vinyl is usually cut from a 24-bit master. Here's a nice overview of what mastering engineers deliver in practice: https://theproaudiofiles.com/audio-mastering-format-and-delivery-guide-2014/ https://theproaudiofiles.com/audio-mastering-format-and-deli...

sjwright 10y ago
> A high noise floor is not even close to being the same as dither, never mind noise shaping. Dither is noise. Well chosen noise, very quiet noise, but noise nonetheless. Whether the signal is noisy for one reason or another, the consequences at the point of decimation/quantization are the same. Either way the least significant bits are filled with stochastic values and the desired signal isn't plagued with quantization noise artifacts. > Have you actually heard the difference between simple dither, noise-shaped dither, and non-dithered 16-bit audio? A test tone is the worst possible way to hear what they do. ...is the sort of thing someone who hasn't done a blinded listening test would say. Stop assuming the commercially successful "experts" are also technical experts, because few are. I doubt more than a tiny fraction could describe what a least significant digit is. (Cutting vinyl, a hilariously lossy process that requires compression and EQ to avoid the needle jumping the groove, doesn't need a 24 bit master. Barely needs a 14 bit master. But since an extra hundred megabytes of really accurate noise floor doesn't make anything worse, they do it anyway.)