5 ms·

A friend of mine's brother recently was kidnapped driving a long-haul up to SP. They held him at gunpoint for five days, and when his parents (who live in the S

by M_Grey 10y ago

A friend of mine's brother recently was kidnapped driving a long-haul up to SP. They held him at gunpoint for five days, and when his parents (who live in the South) called the police they were told at first not to worry, that they usually were released after a few days; they only want the cargo and the truck. Three days in the mother, now convinced the son is dead, is trying to get the police to do anything. Their line is that they can only start to search if the parents come up to SP, and file the report in person. Later, it's admitted that maybe some money could avoid that process. Uber is doubtless not helping, but they're not creating the problem either.

sparky_z 10y ago
Was he okay?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Physically yes, but perhaps not surprisingly he has the early signs of PTSD... waking up screaming, flashbacks. Fortunately his family is taking that seriously and he's going to get some professional help. Hell of a thing to go through for days. It seems the people who kidnapped him kept telling him that they were going to kill him, so he was terrified most of the time.
  - throwaway238347 10y ago
    I would like to understand the perspective of the people doing these kidnappings. They're "bad people" - they didn't have mothers who taught them to play nice? Or driven by economic conditions and what they perceive is a normal path forward, they are participating in the system? What I mean is that it seems cultural. There are places in the world where everyone leaves their front door unlocked, because nobody would come in and steal stuff, how rude is that! Then there are places where apparently the normal thing is to kidnap someone for five days. So please talk about this difference, especially from the point of view of the kidnappers. I would like to understand this. I've made a throwaway as I don't want my curiosity to be mistaken for pushing some agenda, and in case for some reason people react negatively to my question. Thanks.
    - boto3 10y ago
      I used to think it's just economic, meaning the poorer area/country would have higher crime rate. But now I've travelled quite extensively around the world, I think crime is mostly related to two things: inequality and social trust. They are also strongly related as inequality leads to distrust in society/government and in tern that distrust leads to people trying to accumulate personal wealth/power at all cost, even at others' expense.
      - faceyspacey 10y ago
        and lack of the rule of Law. and lack of a culture where the rule of law is respected. that's gotta be the difference between the US and Brazil. I hear their version of the FBI is basically terrified to go into favelas. In America, we are all terrified of the FBI and swat teams that very few of us try to pull shit. America has a culture and history of grabbing your briefcase and going to work at your profession. We are brainwashed by Eisenhower era film footage. As well as X-Files that sedates us into thinking--and probably rightfully so--that US intelligence, police, military etc will handle us if we get out of line. Over there it's very quite literally a jungle. There's no where to hide over here. So I don't disagree with your points. It's just part of a larger picture. My points probably don't even complete that picture. But for now, for me, it boils down to: inequality + a culture of being civilized.
        byroot 10y ago
        > and lack of the rule of Law. and lack of a culture where the rule of law is respected. Culture has nothing to do with it, it's only inequalities. Look at the list of the 50 more dangerous cities in the world [0]. How come the US is the only developed country in the list with St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit and New Orleans. All of those have a higher murder rate then Sao Paolo. People might be scared of the SWAT, and brutal police, and incredibly long jail sentences. But when they lives in extreme misery, they feel it's worth the risk. It's not very different from poor populations working dangerous jobs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

by M_Grey 10y ago

sparky_z 10y ago

Was he okay?

M_Grey 10y ago
Physically yes, but perhaps not surprisingly he has the early signs of PTSD... waking up screaming, flashbacks. Fortunately his family is taking that seriously and he's going to get some professional help. Hell of a thing to go through for days. It seems the people who kidnapped him kept telling him that they were going to kill him, so he was terrified most of the time.
- throwaway238347 10y ago
  I would like to understand the perspective of the people doing these kidnappings. They're "bad people" - they didn't have mothers who taught them to play nice? Or driven by economic conditions and what they perceive is a normal path forward, they are participating in the system? What I mean is that it seems cultural. There are places in the world where everyone leaves their front door unlocked, because nobody would come in and steal stuff, how rude is that! Then there are places where apparently the normal thing is to kidnap someone for five days. So please talk about this difference, especially from the point of view of the kidnappers. I would like to understand this. I've made a throwaway as I don't want my curiosity to be mistaken for pushing some agenda, and in case for some reason people react negatively to my question. Thanks.
  - boto3 10y ago
    I used to think it's just economic, meaning the poorer area/country would have higher crime rate. But now I've travelled quite extensively around the world, I think crime is mostly related to two things: inequality and social trust. They are also strongly related as inequality leads to distrust in society/government and in tern that distrust leads to people trying to accumulate personal wealth/power at all cost, even at others' expense.
    - faceyspacey 10y ago
      and lack of the rule of Law. and lack of a culture where the rule of law is respected. that's gotta be the difference between the US and Brazil. I hear their version of the FBI is basically terrified to go into favelas. In America, we are all terrified of the FBI and swat teams that very few of us try to pull shit. America has a culture and history of grabbing your briefcase and going to work at your profession. We are brainwashed by Eisenhower era film footage. As well as X-Files that sedates us into thinking--and probably rightfully so--that US intelligence, police, military etc will handle us if we get out of line. Over there it's very quite literally a jungle. There's no where to hide over here. So I don't disagree with your points. It's just part of a larger picture. My points probably don't even complete that picture. But for now, for me, it boils down to: inequality + a culture of being civilized.
      - byroot 10y ago
        > and lack of the rule of Law. and lack of a culture where the rule of law is respected. Culture has nothing to do with it, it's only inequalities. Look at the list of the 50 more dangerous cities in the world [0]. How come the US is the only developed country in the list with St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit and New Orleans. All of those have a higher murder rate then Sao Paolo. People might be scared of the SWAT, and brutal police, and incredibly long jail sentences. But when they lives in extreme misery, they feel it's worth the risk. It's not very different from poor populations working dangerous jobs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate