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So the first stage of testing a BI is to build a means tested program? Huh? The moral hazard of this doesn't concern me but maybe I'm misguided. vs That's a

So the first stage of testing a BI is to build a means tested program? Huh? The moral hazard of this doesn't concern me but maybe I'm misguided. vs That's a pretty cynical attitude...I doubt you're now gasping for air as you sink below the waves. I'm confused.

marmot777 10y ago
No i didn't say that was the first stage, I was assuming that they were going to test this with very poor people near the edge before they tested it with people higher up the income ladder. It's an assumption, possibly completely wrong. The second statement about sinking beneath the waves was there are people who are starving right as we speak even here in the U.S.
- greendesk 10y ago
  I am afraid of the situation where a person who is reasonably well decides to let go of opportunities in the presence of UBI. The parent post is a case in point - what if the person tries the startup idea; but since the person's livelihood is not on the line, the startup never lift offs? If UBI endangers the motivation of people 'higher in the income ladder', they are likely to become 'people near the edge'. Since UBI hypothesis is testing ideas for the future, it is hard to predict but important that it does not create a demotivated/poorer workforce.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - rubicon33 10y ago
    I'm really not convinced that one must have pains of hunger, or fear of eviction, in order to start a business successfully. Many people have founded businesses while already having been quite wealthy. Elon Musk, to name just one. I'd also argue, that there are many people who would like to start a business but are trapped by the aforementioned hunger pain, and rent dues. They can't take the necessary time to build a business, because they're too busy making ends meet. I happen to be very lucky, and can work on my side goals after work in the evenings, and on weekends. I'd be much further along though, if I could quit my job, and live modestly, while building my business.

marmot777 10y ago

No i didn't say that was the first stage, I was assuming that they were going to test this with very poor people near the edge before they tested it with people higher up the income ladder. It's an assumption, possibly completely wrong. The second statement about sinking beneath the waves was there are people who are starving right as we speak even here in the U.S.

greendesk 10y ago
I am afraid of the situation where a person who is reasonably well decides to let go of opportunities in the presence of UBI. The parent post is a case in point - what if the person tries the startup idea; but since the person's livelihood is not on the line, the startup never lift offs? If UBI endangers the motivation of people 'higher in the income ladder', they are likely to become 'people near the edge'. Since UBI hypothesis is testing ideas for the future, it is hard to predict but important that it does not create a demotivated/poorer workforce.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rubicon33 10y ago
  I'm really not convinced that one must have pains of hunger, or fear of eviction, in order to start a business successfully. Many people have founded businesses while already having been quite wealthy. Elon Musk, to name just one. I'd also argue, that there are many people who would like to start a business but are trapped by the aforementioned hunger pain, and rent dues. They can't take the necessary time to build a business, because they're too busy making ends meet. I happen to be very lucky, and can work on my side goals after work in the evenings, and on weekends. I'd be much further along though, if I could quit my job, and live modestly, while building my business.