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What's most fascinating to me is the dollar amount: $22/month ==> $264/year. It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone'

What's most fascinating to me is the dollar amount: $22/month ==> $264/year. It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. I wish there were a simple way to participate as an individual. You don't have to be rich to cover one (or more) people's basic living expenses at this rate. Edit: Here's the link to donate: https://www.givedirectly.org/give-now https://www.givedirectly.org/give-now You can even send money via Venmo to avoid the credit card processing fee.

gwern 10y ago
> I wish there were a simple way to participate as an individual. There is? You give money to GiveDirectly. They even take Bitcoin (I've done it).
- mirimir 10y ago
  That is very cool. I will spread the word.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Thanks, that is pretty cool. Somehow hadn't heard of them before this post.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Jeez, when did Bitcoin fees go to $0.3? Wow. I've donated, thank you! Seems like a great charity.
savanaly 10y ago
>It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. While the lifestyles of people in those countries probably are unfathomable to wealthy westerners, don't forget the cost of living is way lower too. Comparing the converted to dollars incomes is not enough to give one the right perspective on how much they can buy. On 264/year in the US one might literally starve to death; clearly the millions of citizens of those countries are not all starving to death. The cost of food, shelter, etc. are all lower in dollar terms in those countries. They are still impoverished in terms of material quality of life though, of course.
uiri 10y ago
It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. That is, at least partially, because it can't cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. According to the World Bank, the global poverty line was US$1.90/day in 2015, after adjusting for purchasing power.[0] This amounts to $694/year or roughly $57/month. Of course, while it is possible that, after adjusting for purchasing power, those 2280 shillings amount to $60 or more of purchasing power. I think most Western grocery bills amount to more than $60/person/month; never mind shelter and clothing. And yet, for all of our society's wealth, I wouldn't be surprised if the average Kenyan had a greater net worth than the average American. Without much wealth to speak of, access to debt is likely to be greatly limited. [0] http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/10/04/world-bank-forecasts-global-poverty-to-fall-below-10-for-first-time-major-hurdles-remain-in-goal-to-end-poverty-by-2030 http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/10/04/wo...
- tedmiston 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that the article is mistaken for calling this amount a basic income? > The nonprofit is in the process of registering roughly 40 more villages with a total of 6,000 adult residents, giving those people a guaranteed, 12-year-long, poverty-ending income. An additional 80 villages, with 11,500 residents all together, will receive a two-year basic income. With this initiative, GiveDirectly — with an office in New York and funded in no small part by Silicon Valley — is starting the world’s first true test of a universal basic income.
  - uiri 10y ago
    Yes. The region of Kenya described in the article is the Western part of the country near Lake Victoria. The national average monthly consumption per person in Kenya is 9,237 shillings.[0] 42% of the population of Kenya lives below the poverty line.[1] It is not a stretch to say that the poverty line in Kenya is going to be at least 6000 shillings a month, most likely closer to 7-8000 shillings per month. The 2280 shillings per month is great but it isn't a life-changing amount for a region where average monthly consumption is in the 6-8k shillings a month range. [0] It will most likely bring the poorest in this region up to the median level of wealth enjoyed by their neighbours. [0] http://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/counties-purchasing-power/2718262-3235446-5o4u1a/index.html http://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/counties-purchasing-power/2... [1] https://www.unicef.org/kenya/overview_4616.html https://www.unicef.org/kenya/overview_4616.html
spyckie2 10y ago
Yes. Recently I've been realizing that humans can live off of very little but we pay for a lot of things that aren't so obvious. For instance, the people in the village were paying to get iron sheets for roof covers, and if you expense the cost over it's lifetime, it comes out to maybe an extra $1 a month. In the US, you pay $400-2000 a month in rent per person but you get a building that has central air, a solid roof, comes with a kitchen & bathroom with modern plumbing, fulfills building safety codes, and probably a lot more. The people in the village were also buying access to wealth generation. One person went to invest in a fishing net and hired labor. He went from receiving $20 a month to potentially making $20 dollars a day. It underlines to me that investment is needed to unlock more productivity and better growth. It is sustained periods (decades) of this kind of continual investment that allows leap frogging from one income level to the next that turns a village into a modern city.
jkaljundi 10y ago
I remember that back in 1990 or so, here in Estonia, which was becoming independent from Soviet Union, my parents (a doctor and a historian) made about $20 per month in Western currency. That bought yo plenty of food and local produce, or anything locally made. Something imported was still just as much as it was in Western countries. Today the average monthly salary is about $1200.

gwern 10y ago

> I wish there were a simple way to participate as an individual. There is? You give money to GiveDirectly. They even take Bitcoin (I've done it).

mirimir 10y ago
That is very cool. I will spread the word.
tedmiston 10y ago
Thanks, that is pretty cool. Somehow hadn't heard of them before this post.
StavrosK 10y ago
Jeez, when did Bitcoin fees go to $0.3? Wow. I've donated, thank you! Seems like a great charity.

savanaly 10y ago

>It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. While the lifestyles of people in those countries probably are unfathomable to wealthy westerners, don't forget the cost of living is way lower too. Comparing the converted to dollars incomes is not enough to give one the right perspective on how much they can buy. On 264/year in the US one might literally starve to death; clearly the millions of citizens of those countries are not all starving to death. The cost of food, shelter, etc. are all lower in dollar terms in those countries. They are still impoverished in terms of material quality of life though, of course.

uiri 10y ago

It's almost unfathomable from a Western perspective that this could cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. That is, at least partially, because it can't cover someone's basic living expenses for a year. According to the World Bank, the global poverty line was US$1.90/day in 2015, after adjusting for purchasing power.[0] This amounts to $694/year or roughly $57/month. Of course, while it is possible that, after adjusting for purchasing power, those 2280 shillings amount to $60 or more of purchasing power. I think most Western grocery bills amount to more than $60/person/month; never mind shelter and clothing. And yet, for all of our society's wealth, I wouldn't be surprised if the average Kenyan had a greater net worth than the average American. Without much wealth to speak of, access to debt is likely to be greatly limited. [0] http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/10/04/world-bank-forecasts-global-poverty-to-fall-below-10-for-first-time-major-hurdles-remain-in-goal-to-end-poverty-by-2030 http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/10/04/wo...

tedmiston 10y ago
Are you suggesting that the article is mistaken for calling this amount a basic income? > The nonprofit is in the process of registering roughly 40 more villages with a total of 6,000 adult residents, giving those people a guaranteed, 12-year-long, poverty-ending income. An additional 80 villages, with 11,500 residents all together, will receive a two-year basic income. With this initiative, GiveDirectly — with an office in New York and funded in no small part by Silicon Valley — is starting the world’s first true test of a universal basic income.
- uiri 10y ago
  Yes. The region of Kenya described in the article is the Western part of the country near Lake Victoria. The national average monthly consumption per person in Kenya is 9,237 shillings.[0] 42% of the population of Kenya lives below the poverty line.[1] It is not a stretch to say that the poverty line in Kenya is going to be at least 6000 shillings a month, most likely closer to 7-8000 shillings per month. The 2280 shillings per month is great but it isn't a life-changing amount for a region where average monthly consumption is in the 6-8k shillings a month range. [0] It will most likely bring the poorest in this region up to the median level of wealth enjoyed by their neighbours. [0] http://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/counties-purchasing-power/2718262-3235446-5o4u1a/index.html http://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/counties-purchasing-power/2... [1] https://www.unicef.org/kenya/overview_4616.html https://www.unicef.org/kenya/overview_4616.html

spyckie2 10y ago

Yes. Recently I've been realizing that humans can live off of very little but we pay for a lot of things that aren't so obvious. For instance, the people in the village were paying to get iron sheets for roof covers, and if you expense the cost over it's lifetime, it comes out to maybe an extra $1 a month. In the US, you pay $400-2000 a month in rent per person but you get a building that has central air, a solid roof, comes with a kitchen & bathroom with modern plumbing, fulfills building safety codes, and probably a lot more. The people in the village were also buying access to wealth generation. One person went to invest in a fishing net and hired labor. He went from receiving $20 a month to potentially making $20 dollars a day. It underlines to me that investment is needed to unlock more productivity and better growth. It is sustained periods (decades) of this kind of continual investment that allows leap frogging from one income level to the next that turns a village into a modern city.

jkaljundi 10y ago

I remember that back in 1990 or so, here in Estonia, which was becoming independent from Soviet Union, my parents (a doctor and a historian) made about $20 per month in Western currency. That bought yo plenty of food and local produce, or anything locally made. Something imported was still just as much as it was in Western countries. Today the average monthly salary is about $1200.