9 ms·

Brazil’s Love Affair with Uber Has Been Ruined by Kidnapping, Robbery and Murder

134 points by MilnerRoute 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
aianus 10y ago
I don't see how Uber is special in this regard vs. traditional taxis. If you're willing to rob a taxi driver you can rob an Uber driver too and vice versa. At least Uber gives the police more to go on during their investigation (GPS logs, ID info).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  Maybe, but I think the point of this article is that networks are agnostic barring intervention to protect them from certain kinds of "traffic". It's easier/more efficient to coordinate crimes on Uber's network in the same way that it's easier to serve malware through ad platforms. Criminals in Brazil are turning Ubers into a real world botnet and Uber is shrugging it off.
grumpynumpy 10y ago
Seems like Brazil is in dire need of electronic payments systems, like wechat.
- Gys 10y ago
  I am in Rio now since a week. I think this country has much more urgent needs then electronic payment systems... Anyways, card payments are more common here then in some European countries, like Portugal or Italy (many EU countries can be traveled cashless). So I was surprised Uber accepted cash payments in Rio (nowhere in Europe, I think). Maybe its because of the tipping ? Adding 10% service fee to any bill seems extremely universal. EDIT: thanks ufo for the comment. I thought it extended to other services as well. EDIT: I also found this background article on Uber cash payments in Brazil: http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-policy-brazil-spikes-robberies-against-drivers-2017-2-1001747769 http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-pol... It says: 'Just 20 percent of payments in Brazil are made digitally' - so that is why cash was introduced
  - ufo 10y ago
    In Brazil, tipping is only common on restaurant bills and it is very uncommon for other services. I have never seen anyone tip a taxi.
    - yuriks 10y ago
      I'm native from Rio Grande do Sul. I often tipped taxis (usually by "rounding up" the value to make change easier too) and I don't think I've ever tipped at a restaurant. Might depend on the region, but I was under the impression that this was pretty universal.
      - alister 10y ago
        What you and the parent say are not inconsistent. You tip taxis by "rounding up", but the parent says he never tips. By American standards, rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping. Taxi drivers in the U.S. and Canada expect 10-15%, or even more in New York City, though their expectations have probably gone down since Uber arrived. The parent say "tipping is only common on restaurant bills". I'm pretty sure that the parent is referring to the 10% service fee, which is always optional, but that everyone pays unless the service was really bad[1]. You don't call that tipping but since it's optional, it's very similar to a tip. [1] http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_shop_etiquette#Tipping http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_s...
        literallycancer 10y ago
        >By American standards, rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping. How would you call it?
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Debit cards are accepted "everywhere" in major cities. But of course you can't pay Uber with that (in Brazil at least). You would need a Credit Card.
aml183 10y ago
I took Uber while I was in Rio. It was perfectly safe. Uber Black is much different in Brazil than it is in the United States. You aren't getting into an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda. Also, you could only pay via credit card. Maybe this is limited to Sao Paulo, but most Brazilians I spoke to were happy that Uber was in Brazil.
- cesarbs 10y ago
  > You aren't getting into an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda. Keep in mind that popular cars in the US can be luxury cars in Brazil. My Brazilian friends' first reaction when I tell them I have a Honda Civic here is "damn, freaking awesome, you're loaded!"... and then I tell them that's a pretty basic car in America :)
  - mirimir 10y ago
    The Fast and Furious franchise ;)
  - ascorbic 10y ago
    This is probably in part because import duties in Brazil are insane, so an imported car is much, much more expensive than it would be in the US.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    a lot of rich people in brazil drive cheap/lower end cars because carjacking and literal highway robberies are a huge problem.
- mirekrusin 10y ago
  Same here, Uber Black everywhere in Rio. Never had any problems, quite opposite actually - going with the little one, folding buggy, drivers were always helping etc. - very pleasant experience. Also very cheap. There are too many yellow cabs in Rio anyway, they're just making traffic driving empty up and down.
soneca 10y ago
I dont like Uber as a company, but I feel this journalist is trying to hurt the Uber brand more than reporting the facts and inform people. Brazil has a very high crime rate. Our northeast capital cities (where Uber started to accept cash as customers were asking for this) are among the most dangerous in the world regarding murder rate. The "express kidnapping" is very very common here in São Paulo. If you consider the crime problem in Brazil, Uber is quite irrelevant on all of this. And it is fairly obvious that if have a big enough operation here, crime will happens to you too. I am not saying that Uber has no responsibilities in supporting its drivers and passengers (preventing before and supporting after the crime). But this story seems to just want to capitalize on Uber bad reputation. And the title is quite exagerated and click baity
- M_Grey 10y ago
  A friend of mine's brother recently was kidnapped driving a long-haul up to SP. They held him at gunpoint for five days, and when his parents (who live in the South) called the police they were told at first not to worry, that they usually were released after a few days; they only want the cargo and the truck. Three days in the mother, now convinced the son is dead, is trying to get the police to do anything. Their line is that they can only start to search if the parents come up to SP, and file the report in person. Later, it's admitted that maybe some money could avoid that process. Uber is doubtless not helping, but they're not creating the problem either.
  - sparky_z 10y ago
    Was he okay?
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Physically yes, but perhaps not surprisingly he has the early signs of PTSD... waking up screaming, flashbacks. Fortunately his family is taking that seriously and he's going to get some professional help. Hell of a thing to go through for days. It seems the people who kidnapped him kept telling him that they were going to kill him, so he was terrified most of the time.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
alister 10y ago
> Recently, Uber announced that another layer of security would be added. Users who want to pay in cash must also provide their date of birth and CPF. Uber is under pressure to do something, so they did something that is both ineffective and frustrating! Name + CPF + birthdate is not an effective security measure in Brazil because anyone can find a valid combination on the web. And visitors to Brazil obviously won't have CPF numbers, so this security measure is going to be a hassle for them. I'll explain a little bit more about why the CPF is so easy to discover and misappropriate: Brazilians are asked for their CPF number everywhere. (The CPF is the Brazilian equivalent of the U.S. social security number.) You're asked for it when taking an inter-city bus, special ordering a book at a bookstore, or signing the register in a building lobby. Birthdate is asked less often but still much more commonly than in the U.S. The reason is often not for security but to disambiguate people. In Brazil, 10% of the population has Silva as a last name[1]. An incredibly large percentage of people have Maria, Ana, Jose, Joao as first names. If you're American, a name like "John Smith" sounds so common that it's the subject of jokes ("you made up that name?"), yet you might not actually know any John Smith's. But a Brazilian probably knows a bunch of Maria Silva's, Jose Da Silva's, and Ana DaSilva's. You need a way to reliably differentiate between two Maria Silva's, so Brazilians ask for the CPF (and sometimes birthdate). And universities and governments regularly publish lists with peoples' full names and their CPF numbers to show graduations, admissions, fines, licensing info, whatever. All you need to do is google for <any name> + CPF, and you can find thousands of PDFs files with thousands of CPF numbers and birthdates (examples: [2][3]). Furthermore, this is terrible for law-abiding visitors to Brazil because it becomes impossible to use services that demand a CPF number. For instance, as a visitor, you can't buy a ticket on any of the Brazilian airlines through the web[4]. The only exception is TAM (now LATAM) that has a portal for foreigners that charges 50-100% more than a Brazilian would pay for the same flight. I don't know how Uber has implemented their new security procedure, but I'm betting that it won't be convenient for visitors! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_South_America#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_i... [2] https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/08/sjrj-res-102-sjrj-anexo-v-ref-2015-07-.pdf https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015... [3] https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SME/2014-02/edital_02-14_notaspreviasefinaisprofessores.pdf https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SM... [4] http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_flight_within_Brazil#Difficulties_of_airline_booking_for_visitors_to_Brazil http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_fl...
rapfaria 10y ago
Living in Sao Paulo, I only take Uber when it's really hot and I don't feel like using the subway. Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers, to the point that if I know there's a taxi stand close to where I'm going to, I'll set the destination a little further away. I can't remember a single Uber driver telling me he started making more money when he started accepting cash. Most of them said they would never accept anything besides credit card, for safety.
- Semaphor 10y ago
  > Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers Currently living in Pretoria, South Africa (close to Joburg). Drop off and pick up points can't be where there are several cabs and when we went to Joburg directly there was even a police presence to prevent violence towards uber drivers.

134 points by MilnerRoute 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

I don't see how Uber is special in this regard vs. traditional taxis. If you're willing to rob a taxi driver you can rob an Uber driver too and vice versa. At least Uber gives the police more to go on during their investigation (GPS logs, ID info).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
alphonsegaston 10y ago
Maybe, but I think the point of this article is that networks are agnostic barring intervention to protect them from certain kinds of "traffic". It's easier/more efficient to coordinate crimes on Uber's network in the same way that it's easier to serve malware through ad platforms. Criminals in Brazil are turning Ubers into a real world botnet and Uber is shrugging it off.

grumpynumpy 10y ago

Seems like Brazil is in dire need of electronic payments systems, like wechat.

Gys 10y ago
I am in Rio now since a week. I think this country has much more urgent needs then electronic payment systems... Anyways, card payments are more common here then in some European countries, like Portugal or Italy (many EU countries can be traveled cashless). So I was surprised Uber accepted cash payments in Rio (nowhere in Europe, I think). Maybe its because of the tipping ? Adding 10% service fee to any bill seems extremely universal. EDIT: thanks ufo for the comment. I thought it extended to other services as well. EDIT: I also found this background article on Uber cash payments in Brazil: http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-policy-brazil-spikes-robberies-against-drivers-2017-2-1001747769 http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/uber-cash-pol... It says: 'Just 20 percent of payments in Brazil are made digitally' - so that is why cash was introduced
- ufo 10y ago
  In Brazil, tipping is only common on restaurant bills and it is very uncommon for other services. I have never seen anyone tip a taxi.
  - yuriks 10y ago
    I'm native from Rio Grande do Sul. I often tipped taxis (usually by "rounding up" the value to make change easier too) and I don't think I've ever tipped at a restaurant. Might depend on the region, but I was under the impression that this was pretty universal.
    - alister 10y ago
      What you and the parent say are not inconsistent. You tip taxis by "rounding up", but the parent says he never tips. By American standards, rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping. Taxi drivers in the U.S. and Canada expect 10-15%, or even more in New York City, though their expectations have probably gone down since Uber arrived. The parent say "tipping is only common on restaurant bills". I'm pretty sure that the parent is referring to the 10% service fee, which is always optional, but that everyone pays unless the service was really bad[1]. You don't call that tipping but since it's optional, it's very similar to a tip. [1] http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_shop_etiquette#Tipping http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Tipping,_fraud,_and_s...
      - literallycancer 10y ago
        >By American standards, rounding up (i.e., up to 50 cents) is not tipping. How would you call it?
raverbashing 10y ago
Debit cards are accepted "everywhere" in major cities. But of course you can't pay Uber with that (in Brazil at least). You would need a Credit Card.

aml183 10y ago

I took Uber while I was in Rio. It was perfectly safe. Uber Black is much different in Brazil than it is in the United States. You aren't getting into an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda. Also, you could only pay via credit card. Maybe this is limited to Sao Paulo, but most Brazilians I spoke to were happy that Uber was in Brazil.

cesarbs 10y ago
> You aren't getting into an Escalade, but typically a Toyota or Honda. Keep in mind that popular cars in the US can be luxury cars in Brazil. My Brazilian friends' first reaction when I tell them I have a Honda Civic here is "damn, freaking awesome, you're loaded!"... and then I tell them that's a pretty basic car in America :)
- mirimir 10y ago
  The Fast and Furious franchise ;)
- ascorbic 10y ago
  This is probably in part because import duties in Brazil are insane, so an imported car is much, much more expensive than it would be in the US.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  a lot of rich people in brazil drive cheap/lower end cars because carjacking and literal highway robberies are a huge problem.
mirekrusin 10y ago
Same here, Uber Black everywhere in Rio. Never had any problems, quite opposite actually - going with the little one, folding buggy, drivers were always helping etc. - very pleasant experience. Also very cheap. There are too many yellow cabs in Rio anyway, they're just making traffic driving empty up and down.

soneca 10y ago

I dont like Uber as a company, but I feel this journalist is trying to hurt the Uber brand more than reporting the facts and inform people. Brazil has a very high crime rate. Our northeast capital cities (where Uber started to accept cash as customers were asking for this) are among the most dangerous in the world regarding murder rate. The "express kidnapping" is very very common here in São Paulo. If you consider the crime problem in Brazil, Uber is quite irrelevant on all of this. And it is fairly obvious that if have a big enough operation here, crime will happens to you too. I am not saying that Uber has no responsibilities in supporting its drivers and passengers (preventing before and supporting after the crime). But this story seems to just want to capitalize on Uber bad reputation. And the title is quite exagerated and click baity

M_Grey 10y ago
A friend of mine's brother recently was kidnapped driving a long-haul up to SP. They held him at gunpoint for five days, and when his parents (who live in the South) called the police they were told at first not to worry, that they usually were released after a few days; they only want the cargo and the truck. Three days in the mother, now convinced the son is dead, is trying to get the police to do anything. Their line is that they can only start to search if the parents come up to SP, and file the report in person. Later, it's admitted that maybe some money could avoid that process. Uber is doubtless not helping, but they're not creating the problem either.
- sparky_z 10y ago
  Was he okay?
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Physically yes, but perhaps not surprisingly he has the early signs of PTSD... waking up screaming, flashbacks. Fortunately his family is taking that seriously and he's going to get some professional help. Hell of a thing to go through for days. It seems the people who kidnapped him kept telling him that they were going to kill him, so he was terrified most of the time.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

alister 10y ago

> Recently, Uber announced that another layer of security would be added. Users who want to pay in cash must also provide their date of birth and CPF. Uber is under pressure to do something, so they did something that is both ineffective and frustrating! Name + CPF + birthdate is not an effective security measure in Brazil because anyone can find a valid combination on the web. And visitors to Brazil obviously won't have CPF numbers, so this security measure is going to be a hassle for them. I'll explain a little bit more about why the CPF is so easy to discover and misappropriate: Brazilians are asked for their CPF number everywhere. (The CPF is the Brazilian equivalent of the U.S. social security number.) You're asked for it when taking an inter-city bus, special ordering a book at a bookstore, or signing the register in a building lobby. Birthdate is asked less often but still much more commonly than in the U.S. The reason is often not for security but to disambiguate people. In Brazil, 10% of the population has Silva as a last name[1]. An incredibly large percentage of people have Maria, Ana, Jose, Joao as first names. If you're American, a name like "John Smith" sounds so common that it's the subject of jokes ("you made up that name?"), yet you might not actually know any John Smith's. But a Brazilian probably knows a bunch of Maria Silva's, Jose Da Silva's, and Ana DaSilva's. You need a way to reliably differentiate between two Maria Silva's, so Brazilians ask for the CPF (and sometimes birthdate). And universities and governments regularly publish lists with peoples' full names and their CPF numbers to show graduations, admissions, fines, licensing info, whatever. All you need to do is google for <any name> + CPF, and you can find thousands of PDFs files with thousands of CPF numbers and birthdates (examples: [2][3]). Furthermore, this is terrible for law-abiding visitors to Brazil because it becomes impossible to use services that demand a CPF number. For instance, as a visitor, you can't buy a ticket on any of the Brazilian airlines through the web[4]. The only exception is TAM (now LATAM) that has a portal for foreigners that charges 50-100% more than a Brazilian would pay for the same flight. I don't know how Uber has implemented their new security procedure, but I'm betting that it won't be convenient for visitors! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_South_America#Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_i... [2] https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/08/sjrj-res-102-sjrj-anexo-v-ref-2015-07-.pdf https://www10.trf2.jus.br/ai/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015... [3] https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SME/2014-02/edital_02-14_notaspreviasefinaisprofessores.pdf https://www.esteio.rs.gov.br/documents/Editais/secretaria/SM... [4] http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_flight_within_Brazil#Difficulties_of_airline_booking_for_visitors_to_Brazil http://brazilsense.com/index.php?title=Booking_a_domestic_fl...

rapfaria 10y ago

Living in Sao Paulo, I only take Uber when it's really hot and I don't feel like using the subway. Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers, to the point that if I know there's a taxi stand close to where I'm going to, I'll set the destination a little further away. I can't remember a single Uber driver telling me he started making more money when he started accepting cash. Most of them said they would never accept anything besides credit card, for safety.

Semaphor 10y ago
> Uber drivers are constantly at war with taxi drivers Currently living in Pretoria, South Africa (close to Joburg). Drop off and pick up points can't be where there are several cabs and when we went to Joburg directly there was even a police presence to prevent violence towards uber drivers.