3 ms·

This is an interesting area sort of like affirmative action. If we don't cede some ground to the notion meritocracy, might that not delay the length of time it

This is an interesting area sort of like affirmative action. If we don't cede some ground to the notion meritocracy, might that not delay the length of time it takes to increase diversity in the field? Will this create the best possible computing and technology world possible -- cutting out or limiting half the population? That is the point Rob is subtly making. We may have to trade a little merit now for increased diversity and a stronger future world of computing. To be clear merit is the easiest way to go about things. That said, I have a daughter and am not sure I would want her in my field as it stands right now (high end infosec). It is even more male dominated than typical engineering and dev. Things to think long and hard about. edit: we are also assuming things are an in general meritocracy in technology amd I suspect that isn't true, but that is a different but relatef discussion.

jfaucett 10y ago
What is the point of diversity? You're just drawing arbitrary lines based on skin color or gender or sexual orientation. If you drew those lines somewhere else say, favorite color/food, political affiliation, mathematical abilities, etc. you'd have a completely different categorization. This is why a meritocracy is so important. There is no smaller minority group than the individual, basing outcomes on anything else is inherently arbitrarily discriminatory.
- stale2002 10y ago
  The purpose of diversity is to promote a meritocracy. Non-diverse environments are unmeritocratic. They drive away half of the talent. If half of the good talent is unwelcome, and leaves, then the environment by definition isn't as good or meritocratic as it could be.
- bitexploder 10y ago
  The biggest point to me is thinking if this would make technology better, increasing th pool of practioners. Increasing the odds of advancement. Diversity isn't the end outcome desired. Better technology is. Diversity (widest possible pool qualified of humans participating). It is not clear if diversity will help, but it seems like it would. I don't think there is anything inherent to male brains that makes them better at STEM fields.
- 4ad 10y ago
  Western organisations like Google or universities are spectacular at this. They fill their rooms with asians, women, black people, gays, lesbians, phds of all subjects, and yet they all act and talk like western white males. Yes, even the women. Coming from a country at the boundary between east and west, poor and developed, civilisation and 3rd world, I find it fascinating how there is less diversity of thought at Google (where people come from all over the place, have all the colors and sexual orientations) then a random group of old people in some fundamentalist rural area in my home country.
  - bitexploder 10y ago
    Yes. This meritocracy smells religious in some ways. It speaks to the elite technologist. They begin to value merit, but it gets warped into "merit that is important to me". Smart people are great at biasing themselves into their own strange worlds of monocultute.

jfaucett 10y ago

What is the point of diversity? You're just drawing arbitrary lines based on skin color or gender or sexual orientation. If you drew those lines somewhere else say, favorite color/food, political affiliation, mathematical abilities, etc. you'd have a completely different categorization. This is why a meritocracy is so important. There is no smaller minority group than the individual, basing outcomes on anything else is inherently arbitrarily discriminatory.

stale2002 10y ago
The purpose of diversity is to promote a meritocracy. Non-diverse environments are unmeritocratic. They drive away half of the talent. If half of the good talent is unwelcome, and leaves, then the environment by definition isn't as good or meritocratic as it could be.
bitexploder 10y ago
The biggest point to me is thinking if this would make technology better, increasing th pool of practioners. Increasing the odds of advancement. Diversity isn't the end outcome desired. Better technology is. Diversity (widest possible pool qualified of humans participating). It is not clear if diversity will help, but it seems like it would. I don't think there is anything inherent to male brains that makes them better at STEM fields.
4ad 10y ago
Western organisations like Google or universities are spectacular at this. They fill their rooms with asians, women, black people, gays, lesbians, phds of all subjects, and yet they all act and talk like western white males. Yes, even the women. Coming from a country at the boundary between east and west, poor and developed, civilisation and 3rd world, I find it fascinating how there is less diversity of thought at Google (where people come from all over the place, have all the colors and sexual orientations) then a random group of old people in some fundamentalist rural area in my home country.
- bitexploder 10y ago
  Yes. This meritocracy smells religious in some ways. It speaks to the elite technologist. They begin to value merit, but it gets warped into "merit that is important to me". Smart people are great at biasing themselves into their own strange worlds of monocultute.