4 ms·

If you're a coder, and you have a job that lets you code (as opposed to sitting in a lot of meetings), then you already "paint every day". Side projects can be

If you're a coder, and you have a job that lets you code (as opposed to sitting in a lot of meetings), then you already "paint every day". Side projects can be a useful way of learning new technologies, but if you're already spending 7-8 hours a day "painting" in work, how much extra skill will you attain doing more in your spare time? I'd argue that you are better off doing anything but programming in your spare time. For example, learn some artistic skills, such as actually painting, or drawing, or playing a musical instrument. Or master a sport, or some other physical skill like woodworking. Don't devote every hour of your life to just one thing. You already spend a third of it programming. That's enough. Step away from the computer and become a more rounded human being.

fredley 10y ago
Not necessarily. You may be maintaining a J2EE app by day for a healthy wage at an established firm, and while you're coding every day, you're not "painting" every day. I think what the author is talking about is more than just writing lines of code, it's writing different and experimental lines of code, different from what you do for your day job. I agree though that just writing more code is not the answer. Different people have different appetites for things, and I find a lot of my side projects involve no code (I sometimes do actually paint), but I don't value them any less for it.
stygiansonic 10y ago
In general, I agree with this. But sometimes, one's job doesn't provide an outlet for one's passion. It could be because the technology is old, the libraries/tools are out-of-date/internal-only or simply because the work feels like a grind and doesn't lend itself to creativity. In this case, there could still be room in engaging one's creative side through a side project. The key is that a side project like this shouldn't feel like "work". There's no use cargo-culting the side project craze if it doesn't flow naturally. For example, I have a friend who's currently working on a home automation project that involves significant programming. I can tell it brings joy to his life, the same way that painting would to an artist. Maybe this doesn't make him more "rounded", but what's the difference? When I see him talk about it, his eyes light up with the same passion I see from those in the traditionally "creative" fields. In the same way, I love spending time using Jupyter Notebooks/Pandas to do rudimentary data analysis. It's fun, and I've learned a ton, some of which has come back to help in my day job.
- downboy 10y ago
  Exactly this. I grind on a massive codebase everyday and the time and risk involved in migrating to new tech would be far too great. Going home and spinning up a new project in some new language/framework is the only option.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    8 years ago, I was working in a pretty massive codebase... I did two major refactors (both going into the wee hours of the night, so I could get it done without conflicting with others)... one was changing all date-time communications as well as ensuring all dates in the DB were UTC. The other was refactoring all of the logging within an application in the client and server-side. Both times consisted of intentionally breaking things and fixing everything that was broken in the new way. Both times I was jokingly referred to as the "king of refactoring." After some relatively bad experiences late last year, I was offered the job I have now working with a few of the people I worked with then, based on that experience. You don't always have to be afraid to make a sweeping change, but you should have a plan, and should try to execute with minimal impact on others. The date-time one was triggered by having to drive an hour into the office, at 1am because of a bug in a deployment update... in the end, it was easier to rip out and replace with something more consistent. Also, there are times where you can break something off into something that can use newer tech... such as a minimal node api connecting to a search database that's feed updates by another mini service that replicates data from an sql db... Try to dedicate a portion of your day/week to exploring how new things can provide value... get it done. As Admiral Hopper said, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." Sometimes in the face of contrarianism, it's easier to "just do it."
- closeparen 10y ago
  >There's no use cargo-culting the side project craze if it doesn't flow naturally. The expected value of generating evidence of your "passion" is actually pretty high, given how strongly people who hand out high salaries (and interesting work) prefer to hire those with a propensity not only to spend every waking hour working, but to be happy about it. Conversely, the job prospects of an unabashed "9-5 programmer" aren't great. It isn't in your interests to give the appearance that 8 (or 10) hours of programming every day is enough. I'd guess that most hours sunk into side projects are seen by their creators as the hard work necessary to enter or advance in the field, more than as leisure time.
gutnor 10y ago
I am not quite sure where this requirement for Software Developer to work 8 hours with extra time because they are really motivated and then spend the totality of their free time on side project is coming from. Does doctor, GP, engineers, scientist, ... expected to do the same ? Because when you jump one level up on the pay scale, there is no expectation of you learning anything whatsoever, at least not outside company time. Similarly, a developer setting a meeting to learn about a technical issue is frown upon, while manager setting up a meeting to learn about a business functionality is perfectly ok. That's how you end up with manager only workshop, but developer should magically figure it out what to do and how, all from the workshop reports.
- fphhotchips 10y ago
  > a developer setting a meeting to learn about a technical issue is frown upon If you're working in an environment where this is frowned upon, you're in the wrong environment. Get out. Places that know what they're doing will actively encourage learning - particularly cross-team knowledge sharing. Whether it's lunch-and-learns, Friday afternoon sessions or random "jump into a meeting room so I can teach you all about this thing I just learned", it's always important to have learning within work hours - it's the only time you'll get everyone together at once.
- tracker1 10y ago
  You're probably working in the wrong places... I average about 2hrs a day of "learning" time... a lot of it on here, and reading related articles. Some of it updating software in github/npm. Bits of it exploring the db/codebase thinking of ways to improve things. If you can't get 20% or so of your work time for self/team improvement, then your job is going nowhere. As for doing things on your own time... software development can be an engineering discipline... however, in practice it's more of a craft. Most of the better craftsmen I know, and know of, spend a lot of their own time working on their craft.
tracker1 10y ago
I dedicate my pre-lunch time most days towards learning/reading... mostly blog articles, or touching something new. It tends to account for about 1/4 of my day, but allows me to be much more productive the rest of the time. I do another 4-5 hours a week on my own time similarly. On the flip side, I tend to not do activities like conferences that take me away from work for days at a time. There's nothing wrong with setting aside part of your work week for growth. As long as it's known and accounted for, it shouldn't be an issue. My time estimates for planning are 5hrs/day. I also over-estimate by about 30%, where most tasks are delivered in about half the time, and the rest even out. It's not about spending every moment of your work day doing the core work... if you're a developer you aren't a cog, you're a craftsman. You need to spend time honing that craft and your skills or you won't get better at it. I do agree on the learning other things, and doing other things... most craftsmen will grow significantly with more exposure to other skills/crafts and arts. But that doesn't mean that you can't spend most of it on your work focus.

fredley 10y ago

Not necessarily. You may be maintaining a J2EE app by day for a healthy wage at an established firm, and while you're coding every day, you're not "painting" every day. I think what the author is talking about is more than just writing lines of code, it's writing different and experimental lines of code, different from what you do for your day job. I agree though that just writing more code is not the answer. Different people have different appetites for things, and I find a lot of my side projects involve no code (I sometimes do actually paint), but I don't value them any less for it.

stygiansonic 10y ago

In general, I agree with this. But sometimes, one's job doesn't provide an outlet for one's passion. It could be because the technology is old, the libraries/tools are out-of-date/internal-only or simply because the work feels like a grind and doesn't lend itself to creativity. In this case, there could still be room in engaging one's creative side through a side project. The key is that a side project like this shouldn't feel like "work". There's no use cargo-culting the side project craze if it doesn't flow naturally. For example, I have a friend who's currently working on a home automation project that involves significant programming. I can tell it brings joy to his life, the same way that painting would to an artist. Maybe this doesn't make him more "rounded", but what's the difference? When I see him talk about it, his eyes light up with the same passion I see from those in the traditionally "creative" fields. In the same way, I love spending time using Jupyter Notebooks/Pandas to do rudimentary data analysis. It's fun, and I've learned a ton, some of which has come back to help in my day job.

downboy 10y ago
Exactly this. I grind on a massive codebase everyday and the time and risk involved in migrating to new tech would be far too great. Going home and spinning up a new project in some new language/framework is the only option.
- tracker1 10y ago
  8 years ago, I was working in a pretty massive codebase... I did two major refactors (both going into the wee hours of the night, so I could get it done without conflicting with others)... one was changing all date-time communications as well as ensuring all dates in the DB were UTC. The other was refactoring all of the logging within an application in the client and server-side. Both times consisted of intentionally breaking things and fixing everything that was broken in the new way. Both times I was jokingly referred to as the "king of refactoring." After some relatively bad experiences late last year, I was offered the job I have now working with a few of the people I worked with then, based on that experience. You don't always have to be afraid to make a sweeping change, but you should have a plan, and should try to execute with minimal impact on others. The date-time one was triggered by having to drive an hour into the office, at 1am because of a bug in a deployment update... in the end, it was easier to rip out and replace with something more consistent. Also, there are times where you can break something off into something that can use newer tech... such as a minimal node api connecting to a search database that's feed updates by another mini service that replicates data from an sql db... Try to dedicate a portion of your day/week to exploring how new things can provide value... get it done. As Admiral Hopper said, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." Sometimes in the face of contrarianism, it's easier to "just do it."
closeparen 10y ago
>There's no use cargo-culting the side project craze if it doesn't flow naturally. The expected value of generating evidence of your "passion" is actually pretty high, given how strongly people who hand out high salaries (and interesting work) prefer to hire those with a propensity not only to spend every waking hour working, but to be happy about it. Conversely, the job prospects of an unabashed "9-5 programmer" aren't great. It isn't in your interests to give the appearance that 8 (or 10) hours of programming every day is enough. I'd guess that most hours sunk into side projects are seen by their creators as the hard work necessary to enter or advance in the field, more than as leisure time.

gutnor 10y ago

I am not quite sure where this requirement for Software Developer to work 8 hours with extra time because they are really motivated and then spend the totality of their free time on side project is coming from. Does doctor, GP, engineers, scientist, ... expected to do the same ? Because when you jump one level up on the pay scale, there is no expectation of you learning anything whatsoever, at least not outside company time. Similarly, a developer setting a meeting to learn about a technical issue is frown upon, while manager setting up a meeting to learn about a business functionality is perfectly ok. That's how you end up with manager only workshop, but developer should magically figure it out what to do and how, all from the workshop reports.

fphhotchips 10y ago
> a developer setting a meeting to learn about a technical issue is frown upon If you're working in an environment where this is frowned upon, you're in the wrong environment. Get out. Places that know what they're doing will actively encourage learning - particularly cross-team knowledge sharing. Whether it's lunch-and-learns, Friday afternoon sessions or random "jump into a meeting room so I can teach you all about this thing I just learned", it's always important to have learning within work hours - it's the only time you'll get everyone together at once.
tracker1 10y ago
You're probably working in the wrong places... I average about 2hrs a day of "learning" time... a lot of it on here, and reading related articles. Some of it updating software in github/npm. Bits of it exploring the db/codebase thinking of ways to improve things. If you can't get 20% or so of your work time for self/team improvement, then your job is going nowhere. As for doing things on your own time... software development can be an engineering discipline... however, in practice it's more of a craft. Most of the better craftsmen I know, and know of, spend a lot of their own time working on their craft.

tracker1 10y ago

I dedicate my pre-lunch time most days towards learning/reading... mostly blog articles, or touching something new. It tends to account for about 1/4 of my day, but allows me to be much more productive the rest of the time. I do another 4-5 hours a week on my own time similarly. On the flip side, I tend to not do activities like conferences that take me away from work for days at a time. There's nothing wrong with setting aside part of your work week for growth. As long as it's known and accounted for, it shouldn't be an issue. My time estimates for planning are 5hrs/day. I also over-estimate by about 30%, where most tasks are delivered in about half the time, and the rest even out. It's not about spending every moment of your work day doing the core work... if you're a developer you aren't a cog, you're a craftsman. You need to spend time honing that craft and your skills or you won't get better at it. I do agree on the learning other things, and doing other things... most craftsmen will grow significantly with more exposure to other skills/crafts and arts. But that doesn't mean that you can't spend most of it on your work focus.