4 ms·

I don't often see this sort of pride in America. Normally the flavors I do observe are hyper-nationalistic and filled with bravado... I'd go even further: our

by wokky 10y ago

I don't often see this sort of pride in America. Normally the flavors I do observe are hyper-nationalistic and filled with bravado... I'd go even further: our current presidential administration spends a lot of energy telling us that America sucks because the people in it suck, the government they built sucks, and the ideals they aspire to suck, and that the solution is to deal out cruelty to the right kinds of people. I don't understand how anyone can listen to that bilge and interpret it as any kind of patriotism at all, but they do. The hyper-nationalism and bravado are a natural result of an underlying emotional condition apparently shared by about a quarter of the populace: an inability to feel pride in anything but the capacity to dominate. This is why a few sentences by Warren Buffet feel like such a breath of fresh air. It wasn't always like this, Buffet's far more constructive and positive sentiment is perfectly normal.

anjc 10y ago
> I'd go even further: our current presidential administration spends a lot of energy telling us that America sucks because the people in it suck Wtf are you talking about? This has never happened.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  While he didn't use the words "suck", he did say it was a "mess". http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/10/donald-trump-the-state-of-the-union-is-a-mess/ http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/10/donald-trump-the-st...
  - wire9 10y ago
    That is magnitudes different than saying the american people suck. Lets try not to put words in peoples mouth, thats how we divide people.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      I don't think you could cause more division than the current administration has.
      - mythrwy 10y ago
        That's your opinion but mine is that division requires minimum two parts.
        dforrestwilson 10y ago
        The politically motivated down-votes here make me sad..
        ajmurmann 10y ago
        In this situation you are probably right. However, it's very problematic as a general statement. There are too many atrocities committed by violent majorities against powerless minorities that come to mind. This blanket statement gets into victim shaming really quick.
        mythrwy 10y ago
        Agreed. Atrocities have happened and will most likely happen again with innocent victims. But even with violent majorities there is usually a justification of the behavior that somehow involves something the minority party is doing (or not doing) that justifies the action. Not that this makes it any more morally palatable (or true) from an objective viewpoint but the division may exist to be seized upon. I'd also argue that Trump isn't the cause of division so much as the result of existing divisions some of which are quite old and have been festering. My last point is I really grow weary of hearing Trump slams. We get it. You don't like Trump. But some people do. Is there any way we could keep this repetitive bleating on Facebook or something? No offense to poster lastlogin. His comment history seems pretty solid, I'm just sick of the Trump slams every third forum.
        beams_of_light 10y ago
    - akhilcacharya 10y ago
      > we divide people. Can someone please explain what this even means? I've seen this used as a thought terminating cliche for far too long for it to make sense anymore.
- wokky 10y ago
  This has never happened. You know he's been a public loudmouth for ~30 years, right? Consider the encyclopedic familiarity with his massive corpus of blabbering you claim when you make a flat statement like this. I could point out a bunch of his statements and attitudes, none of which would be news to you. The issue is: You haven't recognized those statements for what they are. They apply to classes of Other, so you haven't recognized them as being applicable to full-fledged equals, to human citizens. When the president says something like "you have to treat [women] like shit" or when he claims that women are untrustworthy because they're all gold-digging bimbos, he's dissing half the nation as fundamentally deplorable. When the president says things like "laziness is a trait in blacks," he's dissing ~40 million Americans - virtually all of whom are natural citizens, and who are consistently over-represented in the armed forces - as fundamentally less valuable as human beings. The fact that he's also being a sexist/racist asshole at the same time shouldn't let him off the hook for statements like these. The fact that you haven't already recognized these attitudes (and many others like them) as fundamentally anti-patriotic attacks on your fellow citizens - that's on you.
Shubley 10y ago
>the people in it suck, the government they built sucks, and the ideals they aspire to suck, and that the solution is to deal out cruelty to the right kinds of people. Amazing reality inversion. Trump never said anything like any of these. He has said politicians and the political class suck. Not 'Americans'. Hillary and others on that side consistently say Americans suck (deplorables), US traditional culture is evil and racist, etc.
- ftlio 10y ago
  He doesn't think America is great, aye? Hence the imperative that it must be made great... again.
  - jgallag8 10y ago
    I think its fairly common for people to believe both that the US is the greatest, and it isn't what it used to be. There's obviously some tension between those ideas, noted humorously by Stephen Colbert's book entitled 'America Again: Re-becoming the Greatness We Never Weren't'.
- nugator 10y ago
  "... America sucks because the people in it suck..." ≠ Americans I believe Trump has said a lot about non Americans in the US (Mexicans for ex.). But he has also said a lot about Americans (American muslims for ex.).
- curun1r 10y ago
  > He has said politicians and the political class suck. Not 'Americans'. Well, not all Americans. Not white or Christian Americans. But he has demonized a lot of minority groups, many of them American.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  You're just a loser listening to a bunch of bunk. Trump is about business. Business is about winning. Trump likes winners. Losers suck. Winners make America great. Trump is a winner, Trump is for America, so America will be great again. Clinton and her gang accurately tagged the collection of treasonous fascists, racists and conservative losers surrounding Trump as deplorable. Unfortunately for everyone, she was incapable of understanding how and why Trump appealed to otherwise reasonably intelligent people.

by wokky 10y ago

anjc 10y ago

> I'd go even further: our current presidential administration spends a lot of energy telling us that America sucks because the people in it suck Wtf are you talking about? This has never happened.

BatFastard 10y ago
While he didn't use the words "suck", he did say it was a "mess". http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/10/donald-trump-the-state-of-the-union-is-a-mess/ http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/01/10/donald-trump-the-st...
- wire9 10y ago
  That is magnitudes different than saying the american people suck. Lets try not to put words in peoples mouth, thats how we divide people.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    I don't think you could cause more division than the current administration has.
    - mythrwy 10y ago
      That's your opinion but mine is that division requires minimum two parts.
      - dforrestwilson 10y ago
        The politically motivated down-votes here make me sad..
      - ajmurmann 10y ago
        In this situation you are probably right. However, it's very problematic as a general statement. There are too many atrocities committed by violent majorities against powerless minorities that come to mind. This blanket statement gets into victim shaming really quick.
        mythrwy 10y ago
        Agreed. Atrocities have happened and will most likely happen again with innocent victims. But even with violent majorities there is usually a justification of the behavior that somehow involves something the minority party is doing (or not doing) that justifies the action. Not that this makes it any more morally palatable (or true) from an objective viewpoint but the division may exist to be seized upon. I'd also argue that Trump isn't the cause of division so much as the result of existing divisions some of which are quite old and have been festering. My last point is I really grow weary of hearing Trump slams. We get it. You don't like Trump. But some people do. Is there any way we could keep this repetitive bleating on Facebook or something? No offense to poster lastlogin. His comment history seems pretty solid, I'm just sick of the Trump slams every third forum.
        beams_of_light 10y ago
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    > we divide people. Can someone please explain what this even means? I've seen this used as a thought terminating cliche for far too long for it to make sense anymore.
wokky 10y ago
This has never happened. You know he's been a public loudmouth for ~30 years, right? Consider the encyclopedic familiarity with his massive corpus of blabbering you claim when you make a flat statement like this. I could point out a bunch of his statements and attitudes, none of which would be news to you. The issue is: You haven't recognized those statements for what they are. They apply to classes of Other, so you haven't recognized them as being applicable to full-fledged equals, to human citizens. When the president says something like "you have to treat [women] like shit" or when he claims that women are untrustworthy because they're all gold-digging bimbos, he's dissing half the nation as fundamentally deplorable. When the president says things like "laziness is a trait in blacks," he's dissing ~40 million Americans - virtually all of whom are natural citizens, and who are consistently over-represented in the armed forces - as fundamentally less valuable as human beings. The fact that he's also being a sexist/racist asshole at the same time shouldn't let him off the hook for statements like these. The fact that you haven't already recognized these attitudes (and many others like them) as fundamentally anti-patriotic attacks on your fellow citizens - that's on you.

Shubley 10y ago

>the people in it suck, the government they built sucks, and the ideals they aspire to suck, and that the solution is to deal out cruelty to the right kinds of people. Amazing reality inversion. Trump never said anything like any of these. He has said politicians and the political class suck. Not 'Americans'. Hillary and others on that side consistently say Americans suck (deplorables), US traditional culture is evil and racist, etc.

ftlio 10y ago
He doesn't think America is great, aye? Hence the imperative that it must be made great... again.
- jgallag8 10y ago
  I think its fairly common for people to believe both that the US is the greatest, and it isn't what it used to be. There's obviously some tension between those ideas, noted humorously by Stephen Colbert's book entitled 'America Again: Re-becoming the Greatness We Never Weren't'.
nugator 10y ago
"... America sucks because the people in it suck..." ≠ Americans I believe Trump has said a lot about non Americans in the US (Mexicans for ex.). But he has also said a lot about Americans (American muslims for ex.).
curun1r 10y ago
> He has said politicians and the political class suck. Not 'Americans'. Well, not all Americans. Not white or Christian Americans. But he has demonized a lot of minority groups, many of them American.
Spooky23 10y ago
You're just a loser listening to a bunch of bunk. Trump is about business. Business is about winning. Trump likes winners. Losers suck. Winners make America great. Trump is a winner, Trump is for America, so America will be great again. Clinton and her gang accurately tagged the collection of treasonous fascists, racists and conservative losers surrounding Trump as deplorable. Unfortunately for everyone, she was incapable of understanding how and why Trump appealed to otherwise reasonably intelligent people.