4 ms·

Yes, VX is deadly, but no, it's possible to be exposed, wash it off, and be okay. Reality is this is a secret weapon and what little research has been done ofte

Yes, VX is deadly, but no, it's possible to be exposed, wash it off, and be okay. Reality is this is a secret weapon and what little research has been done often does not become public.

pvg 10y ago
It's a military-use agent that's been around since the 50's. It's been extensively researched.
- saycheese 10y ago
  Then you agree you can take a bare healthy hand, dip it in a VX bath, flush it with H2O, and be okay. If you're aware of public research that shows this, please feel free to link to it; I am not aware of such research.
  - tyingq 10y ago
    Someone described something like that in the earlier thread on this topic, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436
  - pvg 10y ago
    There was a comment to that effect on HN the other day with a reference but even without that just googling around makes it pretty clear the thing is not some mystery compound - effects, countermeasures, antidotes, etc are all well-known. 'Secret chemical agent' is something like the gas used in the Nord-Ost hostage crisis - 15 years later, it's not publicly known what it was to begin with.
  - mitchty 10y ago
    Google books found the citation from the book mentioned in the other thread. https://books.google.com/books?id=gugwlufvShoC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Without+interrupting+his+lecture,+he+would+then+amble+to+a+nearby+sink+and+casually+wash+the+deadly+chemical+from+his+finger.&source=bl&ots=YcDr6s0_00&sig=Fd8G_ETAv2PEs-rfJQ_tP8vRy5w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2-MLTyKvSAhUk0oMKHZjJAuIQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=Without%20interrupting%20his%20lecture%2C%20he%20would%20then%20amble%20to%20a%20nearby%20sink%20and%20casually%20wash%20the%20deadly%20chemical%20from%20his%20finger.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=gugwlufvShoC&pg=PA25&lpg=P...
    - userbinator 10y ago
      From the article: Mr Kim had sought medical help at the airport, saying someone had splashed or sprayed him with liquid Perhaps he didn't act quickly enough. Lesson learned: if an unknown liquid touches you, get it off ASAP.
      - saycheese 10y ago
        Really depends on the liquid, since some liquids respond very badly to H2O, the most likely method used to remove a foriegn element. Unless it's obvious what the best course of action is, trying to detant the attacker and anything in there person would be the most likely source of additional information.
M_Grey 10y ago
I've never heard of that, unless by "wash off" you mean "wash off and take a huge dose of atropine and some other drugs, while on the way to the hospital." Then you definitely have a chance, but you'll have some interesting symptoms for the rest of your foreshortened life.
- ksrm 10y ago
  There appears to be a prophylactic compound that can prevent the effects of VX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyrylcholinesterase#Prophylactic_countermeasure_against_nerve_gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyrylcholinesterase#Prophyla...
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Yeah, the injectors you get for chemical weapons is either atropine, or a mix of atropine and just that. It can work, but it's not magic, and the dose you're exposed to matters. It's also very much the thing you do to stay alive until you can supportive medical care, not a cure or "vaccine". You also have quite limited time to use it on yourself before you're unable to move well enough to manage. That said, since Jong-Nam probably got a small dose, that might have saved him, but of course... who'd have had it? Who'd have known? In the military you're trained to recognize the symptoms of nerve agents, because you need to notice the very early ones to have a chance... most people don't get/need that training.
- 1wd 10y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Oh I see, but a few point to keep in mind... if that guy has a cut on his finger, or even a crack... whoooooole different ending. You're talking about someone prepared, choosing a finger to dip, then as the bit says "promptly washing off". That is not really analogous to having your face in some way sprayed/daubed/covered with it. Your face has large pores, plus your nose, mouth, and eyes are there. I doubt the choice of the face was accidental. Maybe he could have washed it off, but I doubt it.

Yes, VX is deadly, but no, it's possible to be exposed, wash it off, and be okay. Reality is this is a secret weapon and what little research has been done often does not become public.

pvg 10y ago

It's a military-use agent that's been around since the 50's. It's been extensively researched.

saycheese 10y ago
Then you agree you can take a bare healthy hand, dip it in a VX bath, flush it with H2O, and be okay. If you're aware of public research that shows this, please feel free to link to it; I am not aware of such research.
- tyingq 10y ago
  Someone described something like that in the earlier thread on this topic, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436
- pvg 10y ago
  There was a comment to that effect on HN the other day with a reference but even without that just googling around makes it pretty clear the thing is not some mystery compound - effects, countermeasures, antidotes, etc are all well-known. 'Secret chemical agent' is something like the gas used in the Nord-Ost hostage crisis - 15 years later, it's not publicly known what it was to begin with.
- mitchty 10y ago
  Google books found the citation from the book mentioned in the other thread. https://books.google.com/books?id=gugwlufvShoC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Without+interrupting+his+lecture,+he+would+then+amble+to+a+nearby+sink+and+casually+wash+the+deadly+chemical+from+his+finger.&source=bl&ots=YcDr6s0_00&sig=Fd8G_ETAv2PEs-rfJQ_tP8vRy5w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2-MLTyKvSAhUk0oMKHZjJAuIQ6AEIIjAB#v=onepage&q=Without%20interrupting%20his%20lecture%2C%20he%20would%20then%20amble%20to%20a%20nearby%20sink%20and%20casually%20wash%20the%20deadly%20chemical%20from%20his%20finger.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=gugwlufvShoC&pg=PA25&lpg=P...
  - userbinator 10y ago
    From the article: Mr Kim had sought medical help at the airport, saying someone had splashed or sprayed him with liquid Perhaps he didn't act quickly enough. Lesson learned: if an unknown liquid touches you, get it off ASAP.
    - saycheese 10y ago
      Really depends on the liquid, since some liquids respond very badly to H2O, the most likely method used to remove a foriegn element. Unless it's obvious what the best course of action is, trying to detant the attacker and anything in there person would be the most likely source of additional information.

M_Grey 10y ago

I've never heard of that, unless by "wash off" you mean "wash off and take a huge dose of atropine and some other drugs, while on the way to the hospital." Then you definitely have a chance, but you'll have some interesting symptoms for the rest of your foreshortened life.

ksrm 10y ago
There appears to be a prophylactic compound that can prevent the effects of VX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyrylcholinesterase#Prophylactic_countermeasure_against_nerve_gas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyrylcholinesterase#Prophyla...
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Yeah, the injectors you get for chemical weapons is either atropine, or a mix of atropine and just that. It can work, but it's not magic, and the dose you're exposed to matters. It's also very much the thing you do to stay alive until you can supportive medical care, not a cure or "vaccine". You also have quite limited time to use it on yourself before you're unable to move well enough to manage. That said, since Jong-Nam probably got a small dose, that might have saved him, but of course... who'd have had it? Who'd have known? In the military you're trained to recognize the symptoms of nerve agents, because you need to notice the very early ones to have a chance... most people don't get/need that training.
1wd 10y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13720436
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Oh I see, but a few point to keep in mind... if that guy has a cut on his finger, or even a crack... whoooooole different ending. You're talking about someone prepared, choosing a finger to dip, then as the bit says "promptly washing off". That is not really analogous to having your face in some way sprayed/daubed/covered with it. Your face has large pores, plus your nose, mouth, and eyes are there. I doubt the choice of the face was accidental. Maybe he could have washed it off, but I doubt it.