4 ms·

Except that, due to your lack of consideration or knowledge, you put other people at risk. What happens when the aircraft hits turbulence and you can't hold on?

Except that, due to your lack of consideration or knowledge, you put other people at risk. What happens when the aircraft hits turbulence and you can't hold on? It is very likely that you injure yourself, and worse yet, someone else.

klibertp 10y ago
> you put other people at risk Ok. How big is this risk? I mean, it's not like the risk itself is something wrong, right? I can risk failure in a game even if a chance for success is tiny because I have a quicksave just before. I can risk being hit by lightning by going out on a sunny day without caring at all. It's the level of risk - how probable something is and how severe the consequences when it happens - that's important. > It is very likely that you injure yourself, First how "very" likely it is? The probability of injury and the extent of the harm will depend, in large part, on the individual person ability. You made a claim in absolute terms, but even if we agree to tone it down a little and say that it is more likely to get injured when unseated, the question remains: how much more likely? You risk injury and death every time you fly. You find the risk acceptable because you need to get somewhere fast. The person sitting in the aisle feels similarly, only their "need to get somewhere" is greater than yours (or their risk assessment differs from yours). > and worse yet, someone else. Again, how probable this is? How much of a threat am I to the people next to me? And what's more important, do people around me accept the risk? If they do, what is wrong with my behavior? On what grounds are you assuming that the other passengers were not ok with the extra ones? There's no mention of this in the article. In short: you're simplifying the problem a little too much. Even if something indeed increases some risk, it's not enough to regard that as bad. You need to take things like the degree of risk and the willingness to take the risk in people in a particular situation into account, too.
- alexvoda 10y ago
  Have you never encountered turbulence while flying? Actually have you ever traveled by plane? The risk of injury, from more "acrobatic" maneuvers, should be rather obvious. To quantify this risk the severity is anywhere from bruises to permanently debilitating injuries + the risk you cause to others and the probability is rather high. Turbulence is not uncommon. And other risks related to extra fuel consumption, extra weight, placement of weight should be easy to understand but more difficult to quantify. Yes, people differ in their ability to evaluate risk, and their willingness to to assume it. But in this case I think, for us as observers, I think it's quite easy to figure out that the personal and collateral risk is significant and bad. Especially since by doing this you are going outside the specs of the plane so you don't know how bad. It is all of the people who do not care for themselves and accept awful conditions that make those conditions acceptable. If the airline can cram 7 people into the aisle next time they will try to cram 8. If the employer sees the employees are ok with less safety, lower wages, less time off, etc. that is the direction things will go because those very it was allowed to happen. It is a downwards spiral.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  In the U.S., about a dozen people have serious injuries each year due to turbulence in airplanes. It's quite a while since the last fatality, but a majority of injuries incurred while flying are due to turbulence. The injuries are so rare precisely because people are instructed to keep their seat belt fastened whenever seated. I don't fly very much, but have been twice in a turbulence where I surely would have hit the ceiling and latest on the downward trajectory, would have hurt myself and others - if I hadn't been buckled up.
  - FabHK 10y ago
    Probably more: http://avherald.com/h?search_term=turbulence+injures&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0 http://avherald.com/h?search_term=turbulence+injures&opt=0&d...
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      That list is global, not just US, and seems to include also minor injuries. But yes, there are definitely lots of occasions where people are injured by turbulence and just being buckled up helps a lot (see how many of those injuries are to cabin crew who isn't seated).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

klibertp 10y ago

> you put other people at risk Ok. How big is this risk? I mean, it's not like the risk itself is something wrong, right? I can risk failure in a game even if a chance for success is tiny because I have a quicksave just before. I can risk being hit by lightning by going out on a sunny day without caring at all. It's the level of risk - how probable something is and how severe the consequences when it happens - that's important. > It is very likely that you injure yourself, First how "very" likely it is? The probability of injury and the extent of the harm will depend, in large part, on the individual person ability. You made a claim in absolute terms, but even if we agree to tone it down a little and say that it is more likely to get injured when unseated, the question remains: how much more likely? You risk injury and death every time you fly. You find the risk acceptable because you need to get somewhere fast. The person sitting in the aisle feels similarly, only their "need to get somewhere" is greater than yours (or their risk assessment differs from yours). > and worse yet, someone else. Again, how probable this is? How much of a threat am I to the people next to me? And what's more important, do people around me accept the risk? If they do, what is wrong with my behavior? On what grounds are you assuming that the other passengers were not ok with the extra ones? There's no mention of this in the article. In short: you're simplifying the problem a little too much. Even if something indeed increases some risk, it's not enough to regard that as bad. You need to take things like the degree of risk and the willingness to take the risk in people in a particular situation into account, too.

alexvoda 10y ago
Have you never encountered turbulence while flying? Actually have you ever traveled by plane? The risk of injury, from more "acrobatic" maneuvers, should be rather obvious. To quantify this risk the severity is anywhere from bruises to permanently debilitating injuries + the risk you cause to others and the probability is rather high. Turbulence is not uncommon. And other risks related to extra fuel consumption, extra weight, placement of weight should be easy to understand but more difficult to quantify. Yes, people differ in their ability to evaluate risk, and their willingness to to assume it. But in this case I think, for us as observers, I think it's quite easy to figure out that the personal and collateral risk is significant and bad. Especially since by doing this you are going outside the specs of the plane so you don't know how bad. It is all of the people who do not care for themselves and accept awful conditions that make those conditions acceptable. If the airline can cram 7 people into the aisle next time they will try to cram 8. If the employer sees the employees are ok with less safety, lower wages, less time off, etc. that is the direction things will go because those very it was allowed to happen. It is a downwards spiral.
ptaipale 10y ago
In the U.S., about a dozen people have serious injuries each year due to turbulence in airplanes. It's quite a while since the last fatality, but a majority of injuries incurred while flying are due to turbulence. The injuries are so rare precisely because people are instructed to keep their seat belt fastened whenever seated. I don't fly very much, but have been twice in a turbulence where I surely would have hit the ceiling and latest on the downward trajectory, would have hurt myself and others - if I hadn't been buckled up.
- FabHK 10y ago
  Probably more: http://avherald.com/h?search_term=turbulence+injures&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0 http://avherald.com/h?search_term=turbulence+injures&opt=0&d...
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    That list is global, not just US, and seems to include also minor injuries. But yes, there are definitely lots of occasions where people are injured by turbulence and just being buckled up helps a lot (see how many of those injuries are to cabin crew who isn't seated).
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]