3 ms·

> Understanding infectious diseases and taking proper personal hygiene measures along with having clean drinking water and plumbing/sewage had much more to do w

by dpark 10y ago

> Understanding infectious diseases and taking proper personal hygiene measures along with having clean drinking water and plumbing/sewage had much more to do with the decline in infectious diseases than vaccines ever did. The effectiveness of vaccines is highly overstated. Clean water keeps you from getting bacterial dysentery. It doesn't do much to stop you from getting polio. Vaccination and herd immunity are what keep you from getting polio, and smallpox, and measles, and a couple dozen other diseases that used to regularly kill people. The effectiveness of vaccines is not overstated. It's clearly established and it's only because we're fortunate enough to have lived with widespread vaccinations for decades that we've lost sight of the impact they have. > ...There is convincing evidence from scientists like a certain CDC whistleblower that there is indeed data showing that there are major problems with the current vaccine schedule... You made a whole bunch of scary claims with zero evidence. This is not science. This is fear mongering. > Asking questions like, why has the vaccine schedule for babies exploded to dozens of shots in rapid succession, when there's not been an equivalent explosion in those infectious diseases? The reduction in infectious disease somehow indicates that vaccines are low-value to you? The widespread availability and use of vaccination is a huge part of why those infectious diseases aren't common now. How many people do you know who've died of smallpox or polio or tetanus? Also babies don't get "dozens of shots in rapid succession". This is a fear-mongering lie. In the US, before 12 months a child should get a minimum of 14 vaccinations and a maximum of about 22 depending on if some vaccination are taken early, 3-shot vaccine series are chosen over 2-shot vaccine series, and whether the child is considered high risk for certain diseases. Less than two dozen spread across a full year and typically barely more than a dozen. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent-shell.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolesc... > Why should gigantic pharma companies, who every year make billions in profits, be not held liable for any harm that is caused Essentially no one holds this position. You're making up strawmen. > nor are they required to perform rigorous testing with double blind human trials for vaccines (like they are for other drugs Citation? What vaccines are we giving our children that are not rigorously tested?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
apr 10y ago
Polio is transmitted fecal to mouth, so proper hygiene is absolutely going to prevent you from getting polio. As for the effectiveness, it is absolutely must be questioned, and here is a case in point: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleb...
- dpark 10y ago
  > Polio is transmitted fecal to mouth, so proper hygiene is absolutely going to prevent you from getting polio. Fair enough, but "In the U.S, following a mass immunization campaign promoted by the March of Dimes, the annual number of polio cases fell from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,600 by 1957. By 1961 only 161 cases were recorded in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Jonas_Salk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Jonas_Salk This isn't a result of a major hygiene change. So far as I know, hygiene in the US did not drastically change in this time period, while polio cases dropped by orders of magnitude. This is the result of consistent and systematic vaccination. > As for the effectiveness, it is absolutely must be questioned, and here is a case in point This is very interesting and very relevant to whether specific vaccines are effective. It does not in any way dispute that in general vaccines can be extremely effective. For the record, I'm totally in favor anyone putting forth evidence that certain vaccines are ineffective, or dangerous, or even cause autism. So long as there's actual evidence to discuss and debate.
  - apr 10y ago
    The history of eradicating polio was clouded by redefinition of what was considered a polio case not once but twice. Early in the day any case of acute flaccid myelitis was considered polio. You have to realize that poliovirus is just one of a few dozen of enteroviruses that can cause similar effects. Here is a recent case that could have been labeled polio just a few decades ago: http://abc7chicago.com/health/6-year-old-boys-death-linked-to-polio-like-mystery-illness/1585286/ http://abc7chicago.com/health/6-year-old-boys-death-linked-t... I cannot find stats right now but I saw numbers of AFM in India where true polio cases keep going down YoY but the overall numbers of AFM have recently skyrocketed. Also let's keep things in perspective. The absolute number of people getting infected by polio or other enteroviruses do not actually show any symptoms. It is quite rare for the virus to invade the nervous system which leads to the symptoms we all fear.

by dpark 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

apr 10y ago

Polio is transmitted fecal to mouth, so proper hygiene is absolutely going to prevent you from getting polio. As for the effectiveness, it is absolutely must be questioned, and here is a case in point: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleb...

dpark 10y ago
> Polio is transmitted fecal to mouth, so proper hygiene is absolutely going to prevent you from getting polio. Fair enough, but "In the U.S, following a mass immunization campaign promoted by the March of Dimes, the annual number of polio cases fell from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,600 by 1957. By 1961 only 161 cases were recorded in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Jonas_Salk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Jonas_Salk This isn't a result of a major hygiene change. So far as I know, hygiene in the US did not drastically change in this time period, while polio cases dropped by orders of magnitude. This is the result of consistent and systematic vaccination. > As for the effectiveness, it is absolutely must be questioned, and here is a case in point This is very interesting and very relevant to whether specific vaccines are effective. It does not in any way dispute that in general vaccines can be extremely effective. For the record, I'm totally in favor anyone putting forth evidence that certain vaccines are ineffective, or dangerous, or even cause autism. So long as there's actual evidence to discuss and debate.
- apr 10y ago
  The history of eradicating polio was clouded by redefinition of what was considered a polio case not once but twice. Early in the day any case of acute flaccid myelitis was considered polio. You have to realize that poliovirus is just one of a few dozen of enteroviruses that can cause similar effects. Here is a recent case that could have been labeled polio just a few decades ago: http://abc7chicago.com/health/6-year-old-boys-death-linked-to-polio-like-mystery-illness/1585286/ http://abc7chicago.com/health/6-year-old-boys-death-linked-t... I cannot find stats right now but I saw numbers of AFM in India where true polio cases keep going down YoY but the overall numbers of AFM have recently skyrocketed. Also let's keep things in perspective. The absolute number of people getting infected by polio or other enteroviruses do not actually show any symptoms. It is quite rare for the virus to invade the nervous system which leads to the symptoms we all fear.