5 ms·

I'm an undergrad student, and I make close to 8k a month freelancing when I'm working full time (like right now). Don't settle for entry level if you're good a

I'm an undergrad student, and I make close to 8k a month freelancing when I'm working full time (like right now). Don't settle for entry level if you're good and can reliably delver great code. You'd have to pay me competitively with my freelancing gig to even think about hiring me. Other grads aren't as self motivated tho and don't know what's out there. Good luck snagging one!

tptacek 16y ago
While I definitely sympathize with you more than the original poster, I note that the idea that salaries should be competitive with bill rates is kind of a pernicious trap. In exchange for a steep discount on your freelance rate, a salary gives you, in rough order of value: * The employer's half of FICA * A paycheck when you're not utilized * Access to group health and some contribution towards your monthly payment * Someone else to hunt down and close gigs for you * Vacation and sick days Take your freelance rate, knock off 30% for health and taxes (your "fully loaded" rate, which might include office space), and then another 40% for unutilized time, and you're ballparking what a salary looks like before you factor in the amount of effort you put into marketing, sales, and contracts.
- drewcrawford 16y ago
  The figure I gave was net. After paying my Internet bill, after buying my WWDC ticket and a couple of ipads, a development machine or so a year, and finding all my gigs. Plus factor in that OP wants someone to maintain existing apps (far from bad, but not terribly exciting work) and you have what would be (for me) a really crappy deal. There are certainly people out there for whom this would be a good fit. I'm simply not one of them, and I suspect there are quite a few people out there my age who make more than I do between the app store and consulting. With normal programming, you can sort of snag developers right out of school before they know what's competitive pay. All qualified iPhone devs already have a paying gig with apple, and many consult for decent pay.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 16y ago
    (a) I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't know the original poster. (b) All I'm saying is that an FT salary and an FT freelance rate shouldn't be within throwing distance of each other. (c) By my math, you indeed should actually be getting something like $8k * 12, because if you're well utilized and paying part-timer-bracket taxes, you're probably undercharging.
lukev 16y ago
Sadly, this result isn't typical, even if you're smart and motivated. Just so expectations aren't raised too high...
- drewcrawford 16y ago
  > if you're good and can reliably delver great code I think that's the part that's not typical, not (just) the pay. In an efficient market, you get paid what you're worth.
gte910h 16y ago
I don't think you're representative of the average person they'll hire right out of college (And I too do iPhone/iPad consulting/development for a living)

tptacek 16y ago

While I definitely sympathize with you more than the original poster, I note that the idea that salaries should be competitive with bill rates is kind of a pernicious trap. In exchange for a steep discount on your freelance rate, a salary gives you, in rough order of value: * The employer's half of FICA * A paycheck when you're not utilized * Access to group health and some contribution towards your monthly payment * Someone else to hunt down and close gigs for you * Vacation and sick days Take your freelance rate, knock off 30% for health and taxes (your "fully loaded" rate, which might include office space), and then another 40% for unutilized time, and you're ballparking what a salary looks like before you factor in the amount of effort you put into marketing, sales, and contracts.

drewcrawford 16y ago
The figure I gave was net. After paying my Internet bill, after buying my WWDC ticket and a couple of ipads, a development machine or so a year, and finding all my gigs. Plus factor in that OP wants someone to maintain existing apps (far from bad, but not terribly exciting work) and you have what would be (for me) a really crappy deal. There are certainly people out there for whom this would be a good fit. I'm simply not one of them, and I suspect there are quite a few people out there my age who make more than I do between the app store and consulting. With normal programming, you can sort of snag developers right out of school before they know what's competitive pay. All qualified iPhone devs already have a paying gig with apple, and many consult for decent pay.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 16y ago
  (a) I'm not trying to sell you anything. I don't know the original poster. (b) All I'm saying is that an FT salary and an FT freelance rate shouldn't be within throwing distance of each other. (c) By my math, you indeed should actually be getting something like $8k * 12, because if you're well utilized and paying part-timer-bracket taxes, you're probably undercharging.

lukev 16y ago

Sadly, this result isn't typical, even if you're smart and motivated. Just so expectations aren't raised too high...

drewcrawford 16y ago
> if you're good and can reliably delver great code I think that's the part that's not typical, not (just) the pay. In an efficient market, you get paid what you're worth.

gte910h 16y ago

I don't think you're representative of the average person they'll hire right out of college (And I too do iPhone/iPad consulting/development for a living)