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> The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with

> The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with a very tough, unfriendly, non human system... Could you share some examples. It would be valuable to learn about the reality of these issues on a personal level, rather than statistics. > refugees, poors, whatever you call them Let's call them people: People who are refugees, people who are poor, etc. (It's a general point and not a criticism of the parent, which like any comment I don't think should be taken literally and dissected.)

danso 10y ago
Reminds me of the Onion report on the study that found "human babies, long thought by psychologists to be highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually extraordinarily stupid." [0]. My parents were Vietnam War refugees. They had the legal clearance, and I believe eventually proved themselves to be hard-working and contributors to society, but they probably would have floundered if not for the initial cushion of government assistance (food stamps, welfare, etc) and the generosity of American host families. [0] http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html
wiz21c 10y ago
Indeed, those are the "people", no offense. So for example of a situation... Immigrant I comes in my country. He's intercepted by the police, I is sick, so the police send him to hospital. As the guy as no social security number, the hospital gives him a temporary one. The hospital pays the bill (yes, my country is socially very advanced). Then guy is better but, because the hospital paid the bill, he now has a special "register number" (more or less a social security number). The guy now reaches a "social help center". They find him a place to sleep. At the same time the guy request a request for asylum. For that he needs a lawyer because, well, he doesn't speak our language and our administration is sometimes complex. Now the guy is interviewed, because the state wants to make sure he is in the condition for asylum. Problem, he'll have to wait 6 months before the first real interview. So the guy starts to run out of money (eating, paying lawyer,...) so he seeks friends. Ah, those friends are somewhere else in my country. So he moves. Ah, friends are in deep shit for some reason, so he moves again. Now he has to be tied to another center for social help, more papers, more complex administration. He now has his first interview. Not a good one, the guy didn't manage to offer all the proofs. So the lawyer will help him to gather some more proofs. Second interview, better this time, he's on track to be recognized as a political refugee; but that'll take a year or two. More lawyers, more money, more small job, more moves from place to place. And all of this is OK if the guy keeps sane (yes, they are people who try to abuse the weaks). If this sound like a pile of facts, it is. But all those facts are gathered, analyzed, to determine what kind of help the person can receive from the state. And that makes my little database and rule model extremely complicated (or sophisticated, depending on your point of view).

danso 10y ago

Reminds me of the Onion report on the study that found "human babies, long thought by psychologists to be highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually extraordinarily stupid." [0]. My parents were Vietnam War refugees. They had the legal clearance, and I believe eventually proved themselves to be hard-working and contributors to society, but they probably would have floundered if not for the initial cushion of government assistance (food stamps, welfare, etc) and the generosity of American host families. [0] http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html

wiz21c 10y ago

Indeed, those are the "people", no offense. So for example of a situation... Immigrant I comes in my country. He's intercepted by the police, I is sick, so the police send him to hospital. As the guy as no social security number, the hospital gives him a temporary one. The hospital pays the bill (yes, my country is socially very advanced). Then guy is better but, because the hospital paid the bill, he now has a special "register number" (more or less a social security number). The guy now reaches a "social help center". They find him a place to sleep. At the same time the guy request a request for asylum. For that he needs a lawyer because, well, he doesn't speak our language and our administration is sometimes complex. Now the guy is interviewed, because the state wants to make sure he is in the condition for asylum. Problem, he'll have to wait 6 months before the first real interview. So the guy starts to run out of money (eating, paying lawyer,...) so he seeks friends. Ah, those friends are somewhere else in my country. So he moves. Ah, friends are in deep shit for some reason, so he moves again. Now he has to be tied to another center for social help, more papers, more complex administration. He now has his first interview. Not a good one, the guy didn't manage to offer all the proofs. So the lawyer will help him to gather some more proofs. Second interview, better this time, he's on track to be recognized as a political refugee; but that'll take a year or two. More lawyers, more money, more small job, more moves from place to place. And all of this is OK if the guy keeps sane (yes, they are people who try to abuse the weaks). If this sound like a pile of facts, it is. But all those facts are gathered, analyzed, to determine what kind of help the person can receive from the state. And that makes my little database and rule model extremely complicated (or sophisticated, depending on your point of view).