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My eyes started to glaze over this piece, but dating a surgeon really opened my eyes to their very exclusive profession. First of all - forget about the tech i

My eyes started to glaze over this piece, but dating a surgeon really opened my eyes to their very exclusive profession. First of all - forget about the tech industry, surgeons are overwhelmingly male. It's obviously a tough path to get there, and takes a huge toll on you when you get there (eg., their divorce rate is pretty high). This made me realize simply the scenario of Gray's Anatomy - some hospital with like eight female surgeons - is ridiculous. Now, all doctors have a God complex, but the surgeons take the cake. They deal with tons of death and save countless lives. My gf fiercely defended this - her point was you want a surgeon who doesn't think twice about huge terrible bloody trauma, people freaking out and intense pressure. You want a surgeon who will be bold, roll the dice and do what needs to be done. I've helped build pretty important systems that affect many lives, but certainly nothing close to that kind of immediacy. Finally, and this is going totally off topic now, but I also saw how terribly confusing the state of American health costs are. We lived in a big city, and doctors did rotations among the hospitals in the area. The same doctors would be doing the same procedures and patients in different hospitals would be billed hugely different amounts. Of course that has many secondary impacts; maybe you get a nicer facility, a room to yourself, certainly (and maybe as importantly) the demeanor of the nurses attending you would be much nicer.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mtdewcmu 10y ago
>> you want a surgeon who doesn't think twice about huge terrible bloody trauma, people freaking out and intense pressure. You want a surgeon who will be bold, roll the dice and do what needs to be done. Essentially, a sociopath. I think this sheds some light on the paradox of Ben Carson.
ISL 10y ago
I do not want a bold surgeon. I want a surgeon who is well-trained, well-rested, aware of and working within her circle of competence, working with a communicative support team, and using a clear defense-in-depth strategy against error. In such an environment, doing what needs to be done is more certain.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Surgery, or cutting other people open deliberately is instinctively difficult for people, even after they rationally evaluated that it 'needs to be done'. Being able to bring oneself do X is not the same as knowing X needs to be done. In that case, a quality like 'boldness' might help the surgeon execute successfully, rather than shrink away instinctively, if you define 'boldness' as being willing to make on-the-fly, risky, life-changing decisions when the need calls for it and then follow through. Most people are either not able to do this well, or deliberately choose not to work in an environment where it is called for. This same sort of calculus weighs in any profession that is in same way already inherently unpleasant, such as being a soldier, a fireman, or a spy.
  - projektfu 10y ago
    I disagree. The hesitant feeling goes away in first year anatomy. Many doctors do not become surgeons because they prefer another field, don't have the scores, don't have the personality that gets recommendations from surgery preceptors, don't want the long residency with bad hours, or were simply unlucky and didn't match.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      "The hesitant feeling goes away in first year anatomy. " Surely 'first year anatomy' is not the same thing as a bloody mess on the table, alarms going off, a frantic staff, and someone about to die in front of you unless you do something that happens to be fairly close to the right thing. I didn't study medicine, but I was in the Army, and I confess that a degree of slightly irrational hubris is necessary in some situations. Surely, we would all prefer our surgeons to be calm, team-oriented and thoughtful in front of us, but I think the situational dynamics just don't apply well to that. Also, people can be all of those things and 'bold'. Admittedly, 'bold' may not be the right word. If there is a word for someone who can be called upon to think clearly and 'do what is necessary' in a complex, high-stress scenario ... well than that.
      - 10y ago
bbctol 10y ago
IIRC, surgeons show an incredibly high rate of psychopathy and low empathy, while general practitioners show the opposite. Cutting people open is one part of medicine where you'll be much better off if you see the body as a problem to be solved rather than a person in need of understanding.
emcq 10y ago
One key predictor to patient outcomes is the experience of a surgeon. There are tons of papers pointing to how long the learning curve for a technique is. This isn't rolling the dice. I don't want an overly confident surgeon. I want a surgeon who has my health in the best interests. If that means refusing a surgery they deem too risky then so be it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mtdewcmu 10y ago

>> you want a surgeon who doesn't think twice about huge terrible bloody trauma, people freaking out and intense pressure. You want a surgeon who will be bold, roll the dice and do what needs to be done. Essentially, a sociopath. I think this sheds some light on the paradox of Ben Carson.

ISL 10y ago

I do not want a bold surgeon. I want a surgeon who is well-trained, well-rested, aware of and working within her circle of competence, working with a communicative support team, and using a clear defense-in-depth strategy against error. In such an environment, doing what needs to be done is more certain.

smallnamespace 10y ago
Surgery, or cutting other people open deliberately is instinctively difficult for people, even after they rationally evaluated that it 'needs to be done'. Being able to bring oneself do X is not the same as knowing X needs to be done. In that case, a quality like 'boldness' might help the surgeon execute successfully, rather than shrink away instinctively, if you define 'boldness' as being willing to make on-the-fly, risky, life-changing decisions when the need calls for it and then follow through. Most people are either not able to do this well, or deliberately choose not to work in an environment where it is called for. This same sort of calculus weighs in any profession that is in same way already inherently unpleasant, such as being a soldier, a fireman, or a spy.
- projektfu 10y ago
  I disagree. The hesitant feeling goes away in first year anatomy. Many doctors do not become surgeons because they prefer another field, don't have the scores, don't have the personality that gets recommendations from surgery preceptors, don't want the long residency with bad hours, or were simply unlucky and didn't match.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    "The hesitant feeling goes away in first year anatomy. " Surely 'first year anatomy' is not the same thing as a bloody mess on the table, alarms going off, a frantic staff, and someone about to die in front of you unless you do something that happens to be fairly close to the right thing. I didn't study medicine, but I was in the Army, and I confess that a degree of slightly irrational hubris is necessary in some situations. Surely, we would all prefer our surgeons to be calm, team-oriented and thoughtful in front of us, but I think the situational dynamics just don't apply well to that. Also, people can be all of those things and 'bold'. Admittedly, 'bold' may not be the right word. If there is a word for someone who can be called upon to think clearly and 'do what is necessary' in a complex, high-stress scenario ... well than that.
    - 10y ago

bbctol 10y ago

IIRC, surgeons show an incredibly high rate of psychopathy and low empathy, while general practitioners show the opposite. Cutting people open is one part of medicine where you'll be much better off if you see the body as a problem to be solved rather than a person in need of understanding.

emcq 10y ago

One key predictor to patient outcomes is the experience of a surgeon. There are tons of papers pointing to how long the learning curve for a technique is. This isn't rolling the dice. I don't want an overly confident surgeon. I want a surgeon who has my health in the best interests. If that means refusing a surgery they deem too risky then so be it.