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Taking about Belgium, I often suspect that they have an extra level of difficulty there due to the bifurcated national identity. What identity could newcomers a

by usrusr 10y ago

Taking about Belgium, I often suspect that they have an extra level of difficulty there due to the bifurcated national identity. What identity could newcomers assimilate into? You won't be particularly drawn to feeling Wallonian if you live in Brussels speaking French and even less to feeling Flandrian. I guess there isn't much Belgianness left if you are neither, so people are more or less predispositioned to stick to whatever parody of their original background they can still piece together. I sense a similar difficulty in my native Germany, where so much of the current national identity is defined by feeling bad for something your grandparents maybe did (or by violently refusing to do so), that the absence of it in non-descendants of that generation is causing a noticeable "identity gap" even generations after immigration. This kind of stuff causes zero problems for those who have goals and education and achievement, but everybody else occasionally leans on group identity and will take whatever fits best. P.S. I've actually come tho think that whatever ridiculous (from the German perspective, yes, totally ridiculous, if not outright scary) business Americans do with flags does serve a purpose after all. It gives both established and new Americans confidence that the new ones can belong, easing the process for everyone involved.

edblarney 10y ago
Agree on Belgian. Belgian is a 'nation' but the ethnic identity is Walloon or Flemish. I live in Montreal and immigrants have the same problem: English or French? There is a 3rd category here (we use linguistic categories) - called 'Allophone' - meaning essentially neither English nor French, but 'multi' or 'something else'. Despite the self-loathing of the past few generations - Germans are generally very German. A flag is a national symbol, not an ethnic one. Even the Nazis didn't use the flag of Germany - totally unnecessary! 'American' is not an ethnicity. All Americans have is the 'idea' of America. Which is represented by the flag. In a way - 'nationalism' is more essential and necessary in a place like America. Germany would be German with or without even the state of Germany. America would disintegrate without national symbols. In Canada - we are less nationalist because we are a British colony. Canadians had British passports up until very recently, just before I was born! Mass migration is a new issue for Germany though - if it were just a few immigrants, it would be a non-issue. But the sheer scale of it makes it an existential issue, one that is akin to changing the Constitution - in fact - even stronger. A constitution can always be re-written. A nation can be rebuilt. But once a people decide that they are a 'nation' but not an ethnicity - and 'go multicultural' - there is no going back. I think that's a decision that should require a 'supermajority' vote type thing, not a decision made, de-facto in a 'crisis' policy by Merkel & Co. - obvious humanitarian issues notwithstanding.

by usrusr 10y ago

edblarney 10y ago

Agree on Belgian. Belgian is a 'nation' but the ethnic identity is Walloon or Flemish. I live in Montreal and immigrants have the same problem: English or French? There is a 3rd category here (we use linguistic categories) - called 'Allophone' - meaning essentially neither English nor French, but 'multi' or 'something else'. Despite the self-loathing of the past few generations - Germans are generally very German. A flag is a national symbol, not an ethnic one. Even the Nazis didn't use the flag of Germany - totally unnecessary! 'American' is not an ethnicity. All Americans have is the 'idea' of America. Which is represented by the flag. In a way - 'nationalism' is more essential and necessary in a place like America. Germany would be German with or without even the state of Germany. America would disintegrate without national symbols. In Canada - we are less nationalist because we are a British colony. Canadians had British passports up until very recently, just before I was born! Mass migration is a new issue for Germany though - if it were just a few immigrants, it would be a non-issue. But the sheer scale of it makes it an existential issue, one that is akin to changing the Constitution - in fact - even stronger. A constitution can always be re-written. A nation can be rebuilt. But once a people decide that they are a 'nation' but not an ethnicity - and 'go multicultural' - there is no going back. I think that's a decision that should require a 'supermajority' vote type thing, not a decision made, de-facto in a 'crisis' policy by Merkel & Co. - obvious humanitarian issues notwithstanding.