4 ms·

I've had the opposite experience. OSX is just weird bsd with a great window manager and ui framework. You can easily sidestep gatekeeper, if that is your compla

I've had the opposite experience. OSX is just weird bsd with a great window manager and ui framework. You can easily sidestep gatekeeper, if that is your complaint. The hardware fit and finish is also second to none, and runs windows just fine if that's your thing. The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. Not to mention it is often used with some awful trackpad. I haven't tried them all but I have never seen a non-mac trackpad I could go back to.

AlexandrB 10y ago
> The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. This exactly. I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. That's not even mentioning the forced updates and always-on telemetry. I'm not sure how one can say macOS is more of a walled garden than Windows at this point, at least macOS's security features will get out of your way if you ask nicely. [1] http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change-Recycle-Bin-Icon-in-Windows-10-picture1.png http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change... [2] https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to_open_control_panel_in_windows_10_-_settings_app.jpg https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to... [3] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/01/neon-.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/...
- kbenson 10y ago
  > I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. This almost reads as sarcasm. Some people really don't care about those things, and using them as examples of why you're baffled just highlights that disconnect between you and them. I don't use any bundled windows apps, and I'm rarely in the settings (and I just search for what setting I want), so iconography and whitespace design decisions in windows apps don't even factor into it for me. Neither OS X nor Windows feel as comfortable as my customized FVWM config did, but windows gets a lot closer nowadays. I had to use OS X at work for a few years and it always grated. > That's not even mentioning the forced updates It's possible to disable them, you just have to put some effort into it (it requires regedit). I think this is the right decision. If you want to disable updates and you don't know how to change a registry setting, then for the good of us all, the answer is no. The tracking is a valid concern though.
  - mattnewton 10y ago
    I want automatic updates. I think this is a good thing. Chrome automatically updates whenever I restart it. This is great. I don't want updates when I am in the middle of something full screen like a game, forcing a restart of the machine on me. This is madness. I don't want ads for office 365, Cortana or edge on my desktop. I don't want to learn how to block them. I don't want to use an OS that feels like it is being milked for all it's worth in its dying breaths.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      It always asks me, and I can delay it. You've actually had it force an update right then while playing a game, and without having told it "no, delay it" multiple consecutive times (I believe it will only let you delay it 2-3 times)? Edit: Also, have you set your active hours? Windows allows you to define the times you use your system so it won't attempt to update during those times. Additionally, you can set a specific custom restart time for when it will restart.
      - cloverich 10y ago
        > Edit: Also, have you set your active hours? I tried to. I play games for a few hours either at night or early am -- say 6pm-1am or 5am-9am are my possible slots. Unfortunately, windows update will not accommodate this -- you are only allowed to set one window with an 8 (maybe 12) hour max, and it must be consecutive. I had to dig around to find this, and it still is not sufficient. I ultimately solved my problem by using the regex editor to convince windows I was on a metered internet connection. Unfortunately, this broke update all together. I turned it back and now its still broken -- apparently the magic auto-updater is the only way get updates -- there's no button I can click to just download the latest update and install it? (at this point I gave up) I mean... that's just insane.
        kbenson 10y ago
        What about setting the specific update time to something like 3 AM? I was just in the windows update settings and there was a way at the top to check for updates right then. I didn't use it so I'm not sure if there's some other gotchas involved with that.
laythea 10y ago
"...runs windows just fine if that's your thing." I have a 2015 MPB and used it for 1 year before switching it to Windows because I got fed up of the apple dev environment. It doesn't just run windows fine, it runs Windows with amazing speed compared to macOS. Everything feels (and is) snappier. I'm still left with a very expensive and under-powered machine. PS. Installing Little Snitch, one becomes immediately aware that macOS does talk to base....a lot!
- tornadoboy55 10y ago
  Sorry but that's just blatant lying. Apple takes great care of optimizing its OS and apps for its hardware, to the point where it's possible to use Final Cut Pro on the anemic MacBook 12 somewhat comfortably(!)
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    Microsoft takes great care for optimizing its OS and apps for any hardware, to the point where it's possible to run Windows 10 on 10 year old hardware somewhat comfortably. To the point where the Windows 10 Kernel and a lot of the Windows 10 Core (OneCore) runs on mobile and IoT hardware...
  - laythea 10y ago
    Yes, apple does optimize. I'm not disputing that; neither starting a silly "apple vs" debate. I am no fan boy of either mac or PC - I just use whatever is best. The point is, that "equivalent software" runs faster. I would wager that if Final Cut Pro was for Windows, and you run it on the very same MacBook12, it would run faster on Windows. Despite this, using Final Cut Pro an example is a bad one, because it was developed by Apple itself (and therefore assumed to be highly optimized to the OS) and it is not available for windows. It is more useful to compare an equivalent 3rd party (neither made by apple or microsoft) application. I'm a developer, so I use a lot more software than just "apps" so maybe if you try to use a wider set of software, the difference in platforms will become apparent. Admittingly, I don't have numbers. But I don't need numbers, because you can feel the difference as a user. Install it and see for yourself!

AlexandrB 10y ago

> The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. This exactly. I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. That's not even mentioning the forced updates and always-on telemetry. I'm not sure how one can say macOS is more of a walled garden than Windows at this point, at least macOS's security features will get out of your way if you ask nicely. [1] http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change-Recycle-Bin-Icon-in-Windows-10-picture1.png http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change... [2] https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to_open_control_panel_in_windows_10_-_settings_app.jpg https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to... [3] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/01/neon-.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/...

kbenson 10y ago
> I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. This almost reads as sarcasm. Some people really don't care about those things, and using them as examples of why you're baffled just highlights that disconnect between you and them. I don't use any bundled windows apps, and I'm rarely in the settings (and I just search for what setting I want), so iconography and whitespace design decisions in windows apps don't even factor into it for me. Neither OS X nor Windows feel as comfortable as my customized FVWM config did, but windows gets a lot closer nowadays. I had to use OS X at work for a few years and it always grated. > That's not even mentioning the forced updates It's possible to disable them, you just have to put some effort into it (it requires regedit). I think this is the right decision. If you want to disable updates and you don't know how to change a registry setting, then for the good of us all, the answer is no. The tracking is a valid concern though.
- mattnewton 10y ago
  I want automatic updates. I think this is a good thing. Chrome automatically updates whenever I restart it. This is great. I don't want updates when I am in the middle of something full screen like a game, forcing a restart of the machine on me. This is madness. I don't want ads for office 365, Cortana or edge on my desktop. I don't want to learn how to block them. I don't want to use an OS that feels like it is being milked for all it's worth in its dying breaths.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    It always asks me, and I can delay it. You've actually had it force an update right then while playing a game, and without having told it "no, delay it" multiple consecutive times (I believe it will only let you delay it 2-3 times)? Edit: Also, have you set your active hours? Windows allows you to define the times you use your system so it won't attempt to update during those times. Additionally, you can set a specific custom restart time for when it will restart.
    - cloverich 10y ago
      > Edit: Also, have you set your active hours? I tried to. I play games for a few hours either at night or early am -- say 6pm-1am or 5am-9am are my possible slots. Unfortunately, windows update will not accommodate this -- you are only allowed to set one window with an 8 (maybe 12) hour max, and it must be consecutive. I had to dig around to find this, and it still is not sufficient. I ultimately solved my problem by using the regex editor to convince windows I was on a metered internet connection. Unfortunately, this broke update all together. I turned it back and now its still broken -- apparently the magic auto-updater is the only way get updates -- there's no button I can click to just download the latest update and install it? (at this point I gave up) I mean... that's just insane.
      - kbenson 10y ago
        What about setting the specific update time to something like 3 AM? I was just in the windows update settings and there was a way at the top to check for updates right then. I didn't use it so I'm not sure if there's some other gotchas involved with that.

laythea 10y ago

"...runs windows just fine if that's your thing." I have a 2015 MPB and used it for 1 year before switching it to Windows because I got fed up of the apple dev environment. It doesn't just run windows fine, it runs Windows with amazing speed compared to macOS. Everything feels (and is) snappier. I'm still left with a very expensive and under-powered machine. PS. Installing Little Snitch, one becomes immediately aware that macOS does talk to base....a lot!

tornadoboy55 10y ago
Sorry but that's just blatant lying. Apple takes great care of optimizing its OS and apps for its hardware, to the point where it's possible to use Final Cut Pro on the anemic MacBook 12 somewhat comfortably(!)
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  Microsoft takes great care for optimizing its OS and apps for any hardware, to the point where it's possible to run Windows 10 on 10 year old hardware somewhat comfortably. To the point where the Windows 10 Kernel and a lot of the Windows 10 Core (OneCore) runs on mobile and IoT hardware...
- laythea 10y ago
  Yes, apple does optimize. I'm not disputing that; neither starting a silly "apple vs" debate. I am no fan boy of either mac or PC - I just use whatever is best. The point is, that "equivalent software" runs faster. I would wager that if Final Cut Pro was for Windows, and you run it on the very same MacBook12, it would run faster on Windows. Despite this, using Final Cut Pro an example is a bad one, because it was developed by Apple itself (and therefore assumed to be highly optimized to the OS) and it is not available for windows. It is more useful to compare an equivalent 3rd party (neither made by apple or microsoft) application. I'm a developer, so I use a lot more software than just "apps" so maybe if you try to use a wider set of software, the difference in platforms will become apparent. Admittingly, I don't have numbers. But I don't need numbers, because you can feel the difference as a user. Install it and see for yourself!