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She does not regard her fear as irrational. She is choosing to let her fear limit where she will take her next vacation because she believes the danger is real

She does not regard her fear as irrational. She is choosing to let her fear limit where she will take her next vacation because she believes the danger is real. She thinks that by choosing to not travel to France she is reducing her exposure to a real danger. Another point she made during our (far ranging) discussion which I didn't mention, was that she regards Islam as part of the cause of terrorism. In my mind, (as a non-religious person who thinks all religions are crazy but not all religious people have to be) -- this is an idea which is pointless. Its an idea which is dangerous if many people believe it or basically harmless if most people don't. I tried to argue that the relationships between muslim communities around the world and Islamic Terrorism were cultural rather than religious but she rejected that, suggesting that something specific about the terms of the religion as dictated in their holy texts/rituals were an important part of the Islamic Terrorism phenomenon. She disagreed with me when I argued that terrorist attacks in the west were primarily the result of people with random assortments of psychotic mental illnesses pattern matching against propaganda on the internet to find 'reasons' for conducting their attacks -- much more so than from some fundamental aspects within one of the largest religions in the world ... My preferred hobby is rock climbing which involves a fairly direct dialogue with the fear response. Accurate risk assessment is a visceral part of the process of maintaining safety in rock climbing. I tend to be sensitive to scenarios where over-estimating risk actually has counterproductive effects on safety. Not only do I disagree with her because of my perceived errors in her personal decision making -- but its also my opinion that this error is too common and should be called out for what it is, because mis-allocation of fear becomes increasingly dangerous as it becomes more common. I think the capacity for the fear of terrorism to justify horrible decisions is clear and supported by historical evidence (second Iraq war). Playing to fear of terrorism -- by condemning the party in power for failing to be hard enough, by things like muslim bans, and by attempts to kill them over their so we don't have to kill them here are real phenomenon whose real world cost far exceeds the actual damage from terrorism. Us not going to France for holiday because of fear of terrorism ultimately supports other much worse irrational actions ... I think the way she justifies her fear of muslims and the way that she prioritizes that over other forms of fear is racist ... I think I'm reading in the responses to my comment that maybe the takeaway sentiment is that -- (a) she isn't alone in feeling an irrational fear as she does, (b) she should strive to acknowledge that her fear is irrational and (c) she should try to work to not let it govern her actions. So ... does that mean that we should travel to France or not?

cableshaft 10y ago
Thank you for elaborating. I also fight the idea that Islam (and the Qur'an in particular) encourages terrorist activity, to the point where my own family members have asked if I considered myself to be Muslim myself (no, I just have actually read a good chunk of the book). Nevertheless, there are several people that use it (as people do with all religions) as a justification to further their own malicious ends. I think you pretty much understood my point fully with your takeaways. Personally, I have no desire to go to France, because I would be nervous about the potential for things to go wrong there. I also avoid planning trips to Mexico for a similar reason, or anywhere in the Middle East (not that I can really afford it anyway). My desire to see these places at this time is not strong enough to counteract my wariness about the potential for bad events to happen. I would like to visit France at some point, because I studied French for two years in high school, but other countries are much higher on the priority list, and France was knocked down, in part, because of the slim, but potential danger that's there right now. No country is truly safe. Like the top country of my list to visit is Japan, and North Korea tries to make sure it threatens Japan at least half as often as it threatens South Korea and the US, plus it had the nuclear reactor disaster, as well as regular tsunamis and earthquakes. But I don't care, at some point I'll visit it. I know a woman in the US who almost didn't go vacation in Peru last year with her Peruvian husband, at the height of the Zika virus scare, but they still went. Now she's glad she went before this immigration ban bullshit, since he might had trouble getting back into the country. She still freaked out about Zika for awhile, though. So I guess my point is, I don't know whether you should go to France or not, but I can understand why she might be hesitant to go. Generally speaking, though, if it's something you really want to do, you should do it sooner than later, because you don't know what the future will bring. It might be harder to afford it or enjoy it in the future, or something could happen and it wouldn't be the same experience.

cableshaft 10y ago

Thank you for elaborating. I also fight the idea that Islam (and the Qur'an in particular) encourages terrorist activity, to the point where my own family members have asked if I considered myself to be Muslim myself (no, I just have actually read a good chunk of the book). Nevertheless, there are several people that use it (as people do with all religions) as a justification to further their own malicious ends. I think you pretty much understood my point fully with your takeaways. Personally, I have no desire to go to France, because I would be nervous about the potential for things to go wrong there. I also avoid planning trips to Mexico for a similar reason, or anywhere in the Middle East (not that I can really afford it anyway). My desire to see these places at this time is not strong enough to counteract my wariness about the potential for bad events to happen. I would like to visit France at some point, because I studied French for two years in high school, but other countries are much higher on the priority list, and France was knocked down, in part, because of the slim, but potential danger that's there right now. No country is truly safe. Like the top country of my list to visit is Japan, and North Korea tries to make sure it threatens Japan at least half as often as it threatens South Korea and the US, plus it had the nuclear reactor disaster, as well as regular tsunamis and earthquakes. But I don't care, at some point I'll visit it. I know a woman in the US who almost didn't go vacation in Peru last year with her Peruvian husband, at the height of the Zika virus scare, but they still went. Now she's glad she went before this immigration ban bullshit, since he might had trouble getting back into the country. She still freaked out about Zika for awhile, though. So I guess my point is, I don't know whether you should go to France or not, but I can understand why she might be hesitant to go. Generally speaking, though, if it's something you really want to do, you should do it sooner than later, because you don't know what the future will bring. It might be harder to afford it or enjoy it in the future, or something could happen and it wouldn't be the same experience.