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I recently trashed my 2011 MBP (oops) and spent a month without it. I decided to try using my corporate-provided Surface Pro 4 instead to see how I could get on

by pidg 10y ago

I recently trashed my 2011 MBP (oops) and spent a month without it. I decided to try using my corporate-provided Surface Pro 4 instead to see how I could get on with a similar-spec Windows 10 PC for personal use. By the end of the month I had gone slightly loopy (seriously - MacBook withdrawl is real), gave up and bought a 2015 rMBP. Personally I find macOS, and its deep integration with Apple's hardware, too intuitive and 'invisible' to the way I work to give up on it.

Certhas 10y ago
All that that tells me is that switching is hard. I use both Linux Mint and MacOS on a daily basis and I can't say that one really is better than the other. I'm sure it would be the same with Windows if not for the fact that I need some unix-y stuff. I do have a use case that I would really like to get on my primary laptop that neither Mac nor Linux currently offer: Detach screen and use stylus to annotate pdfs. If I was using windows on a surface this would be a major part of my workflow, and I would find it impossible to switch back. Doesn't prove that Windows is superior. (Maybe I will end up dualbooting Windows and Linux on a Surface or Yoga or some such thing eventually).
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  Have you tried the Windows Subsystem for Linux? You might be able to get by without a separate Linux install. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
  - Certhas 10y ago
    Not yet, but I'm following it closely. Currently I don't have a Windows install on any of my work machines, so it's something I will evaluate when I update computers next.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> Have you tried the Windows Subsystem for Linux? You might be able to get by without a separate Linux install. I have been meaning to Subsystem for Linux that since they announced it, but Cmder (Conemu) has been so working well for me that I have gotten too complacent to even try it. Cmder was the one thing for me when I switched to Mac that truly made the transition painless -- I thought I would hate not having OSX Terminal. I don't do super advanced unix shell stuff, and it was just perfect.
    - phaed 10y ago
      You can run WSL inside Conemu.
      - slantyyz 10y ago
        Yes, but Conemu already provides access to a lot of unix-y tools. If your needs are already being met, it's sometimes hard to make time to play with something that does the same.
  - hermitdev 10y ago
    I've been using it since it was available on the insider fast ring. It works pretty well for command-line use. If you need X at all, you're probably SOL. I've been doing mostly C++ & Python development. I've run into a couple of issues around networking and a couple of UI issues. The UI issues have been fixed after I reported an issue on GitHub. All in all, it's been a fairing great experience, and the developers have been very responsive to issues reported on GitHub.
WayneBro 10y ago
I feel like I'm in prison or an insane asylum when I have to use my Mac or iOS devices after enjoying the freedom that I have using Windows all day. I could go very far into detail here and list all of the extremely annoying limitations that I run into, but instead I'll respond to your vague complaints with my own. Apple quite obviously wants absolute control over their device and their software whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software. I have to have a Mac to make iOS apps, but as soon as those are no longer a thing I'll toss all my Mac stuff straight into the garbage.
- woah 10y ago
  To me, MacOS just seems like the best desktop UI and UX out there. I'm talking about stuff like font rendering, gestures, multiple desktops, etc. All of these things on the Mac have clearly had a huge amount of thought put into them. And since these things mediate your entire interaction with the computer, it's a big factor for me. Windows seems to be a combination of 90's era throwbacks and 2edgy4you Metro design. If they've managed to improve this stuff recently I would be interested in switching, since there's a huge tax on hardware specs with Apple computers.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    How recent is recently? Windows 7 was the first windows version I didn't dread using for years, Windows 8 was a small refinement on that, and Windows 10 is a vast improvement on that. Windows 10 feels like it just wants to get out of my way, which is really nice, since for me the gold standard is a customized FVWM config I refined over a decade to be minimalist and extremely usable for work. If you haven't used Windows 10, it's probably worth at least a look (as long as you don't mind or have ways to mitigate the privacy concerns).
    - woah 10y ago
      I'll take a look. Does the ubuntu subsystem make it work like a real computer for programming tasks?
  - 10y ago
slantyyz 10y ago
>> By the end of the month I had gone slightly loopy (seriously - MacBook withdrawl is real), After being on Mac for about a decade, it only took a week of using Windows full time before going back on the Mac felt foreign to me. If I spent a week or so full time on the Mac, the reverse would probably happen. These days I only care that my main tools work on whatever operating system I use (it's a great era for end users now that so many tools are cross platform). There are things about every OS'es main UI that bug me, so I don't find myself being loyal to any one particular OS.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  Mac hardware is great! But I find using OS X is like trying to juggle with handcuffs compared to the Windows. IMHO In their quest for simplicity, that have made a very good GUI for users, but hell for professional developers who DON'T only use the command line. One of my lifelong friends swears by his MBP, but he only uses the command line.
  - laythea 10y ago
    This goes against my (and others) experience. Every recent OS release, Apple has dumb'd down the UI, not just for devs, but any user.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> Mac hardware is great! I think that depends on your view. IMO, Apple generally does make some of the best hardware in terms of quality and design, but there are exceptions. The Mac Pro garbage can, for example. I don't know why they chose to make an art piece to replace the incredibly functional and expandable tower that existed before. Another example is the early 2011 Macbook Pro 15" with discrete GPU, which had serious overheating problems that they just pretended didn't exist for more than three years.

by pidg 10y ago

Certhas 10y ago

All that that tells me is that switching is hard. I use both Linux Mint and MacOS on a daily basis and I can't say that one really is better than the other. I'm sure it would be the same with Windows if not for the fact that I need some unix-y stuff. I do have a use case that I would really like to get on my primary laptop that neither Mac nor Linux currently offer: Detach screen and use stylus to annotate pdfs. If I was using windows on a surface this would be a major part of my workflow, and I would find it impossible to switch back. Doesn't prove that Windows is superior. (Maybe I will end up dualbooting Windows and Linux on a Surface or Yoga or some such thing eventually).

wlesieutre 10y ago
Have you tried the Windows Subsystem for Linux? You might be able to get by without a separate Linux install. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
- Certhas 10y ago
  Not yet, but I'm following it closely. Currently I don't have a Windows install on any of my work machines, so it's something I will evaluate when I update computers next.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> Have you tried the Windows Subsystem for Linux? You might be able to get by without a separate Linux install. I have been meaning to Subsystem for Linux that since they announced it, but Cmder (Conemu) has been so working well for me that I have gotten too complacent to even try it. Cmder was the one thing for me when I switched to Mac that truly made the transition painless -- I thought I would hate not having OSX Terminal. I don't do super advanced unix shell stuff, and it was just perfect.
  - phaed 10y ago
    You can run WSL inside Conemu.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      Yes, but Conemu already provides access to a lot of unix-y tools. If your needs are already being met, it's sometimes hard to make time to play with something that does the same.
- hermitdev 10y ago
  I've been using it since it was available on the insider fast ring. It works pretty well for command-line use. If you need X at all, you're probably SOL. I've been doing mostly C++ & Python development. I've run into a couple of issues around networking and a couple of UI issues. The UI issues have been fixed after I reported an issue on GitHub. All in all, it's been a fairing great experience, and the developers have been very responsive to issues reported on GitHub.

WayneBro 10y ago

I feel like I'm in prison or an insane asylum when I have to use my Mac or iOS devices after enjoying the freedom that I have using Windows all day. I could go very far into detail here and list all of the extremely annoying limitations that I run into, but instead I'll respond to your vague complaints with my own. Apple quite obviously wants absolute control over their device and their software whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software. I have to have a Mac to make iOS apps, but as soon as those are no longer a thing I'll toss all my Mac stuff straight into the garbage.

woah 10y ago
To me, MacOS just seems like the best desktop UI and UX out there. I'm talking about stuff like font rendering, gestures, multiple desktops, etc. All of these things on the Mac have clearly had a huge amount of thought put into them. And since these things mediate your entire interaction with the computer, it's a big factor for me. Windows seems to be a combination of 90's era throwbacks and 2edgy4you Metro design. If they've managed to improve this stuff recently I would be interested in switching, since there's a huge tax on hardware specs with Apple computers.
- kbenson 10y ago
  How recent is recently? Windows 7 was the first windows version I didn't dread using for years, Windows 8 was a small refinement on that, and Windows 10 is a vast improvement on that. Windows 10 feels like it just wants to get out of my way, which is really nice, since for me the gold standard is a customized FVWM config I refined over a decade to be minimalist and extremely usable for work. If you haven't used Windows 10, it's probably worth at least a look (as long as you don't mind or have ways to mitigate the privacy concerns).
  - woah 10y ago
    I'll take a look. Does the ubuntu subsystem make it work like a real computer for programming tasks?
- 10y ago

slantyyz 10y ago

>> By the end of the month I had gone slightly loopy (seriously - MacBook withdrawl is real), After being on Mac for about a decade, it only took a week of using Windows full time before going back on the Mac felt foreign to me. If I spent a week or so full time on the Mac, the reverse would probably happen. These days I only care that my main tools work on whatever operating system I use (it's a great era for end users now that so many tools are cross platform). There are things about every OS'es main UI that bug me, so I don't find myself being loyal to any one particular OS.

BatFastard 10y ago
Mac hardware is great! But I find using OS X is like trying to juggle with handcuffs compared to the Windows. IMHO In their quest for simplicity, that have made a very good GUI for users, but hell for professional developers who DON'T only use the command line. One of my lifelong friends swears by his MBP, but he only uses the command line.
- laythea 10y ago
  This goes against my (and others) experience. Every recent OS release, Apple has dumb'd down the UI, not just for devs, but any user.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> Mac hardware is great! I think that depends on your view. IMO, Apple generally does make some of the best hardware in terms of quality and design, but there are exceptions. The Mac Pro garbage can, for example. I don't know why they chose to make an art piece to replace the incredibly functional and expandable tower that existed before. Another example is the early 2011 Macbook Pro 15" with discrete GPU, which had serious overheating problems that they just pretended didn't exist for more than three years.