3 ms·

What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones', to the extent that that you can confidently state that it is 'plain

by otalp 10y ago

What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones', to the extent that that you can confidently state that it is 'plainly' wrong to attribute differences to poverty and lack of education?

lngnmn 10y ago
It is obvious - poor but educated people are different from poor and uneducated. To lift people out of misery and poverty is what education is for in the first place. In countries like India that could be clearly seen. Poverty alone does not account for the behavioral patterns. Education is the key. People knew this since antiquity, independently of a particular civilization - Indians knew this, Chinese knew this, you name it.
- Voloskaya 10y ago
  In many country, including France where issues similar to sweden exists, the quality of the education you receive is directly correlated with the median wealth of your neighborhood. Poor suburbs have way worse education than rich ones.
  - lngnmn 10y ago
    Education is not only about academic knowledge per se. It is also a set of habits of self-control, acquired skills, social behavior patterns and transformed perceptions. This is what we call conditioning or exposure to certain culture. Street kids, usually members of a gang, who never have experienced transforming influence of the culture of a good school and a good teacher are definitely not the same as those who vent through one.
factsaresacred 10y ago
> What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'? How about the Swedish government themselves? - A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that "there any indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts. Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status (calculated as per SEI code) in Sweden." - Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention determined that between 1985 and 1989 individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia),Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries), other Middle East (Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Iran and Eastern Europe (Romania, Bulgaria) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, 9, 10 and 18 greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively." http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1.pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-... Besides, socioeconomic factors to justify rape....really?
- glormph 10y ago
  I am not arguing against your point, but are there reports which are not 20+ years old? Also, my understanding of the words may be wrong but I didn't see anyone _justifying_ rape in this thread.
  - factsaresacred 10y ago
    > are there reports which are not 20+ years old? I asked the same question. In 2005 Bra released a report saying "Immigrants’ risk of being registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the end of the 1980s". https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1371914726382/2006_4_kriminalstatistik_2005.pdf https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1... Your claim was "What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'?" so my question is 'what of rape'? This is the main crime making headlines. How does one explain it with socioeconomic factors? And even if you could, would that be a satisfactory explanation?
    - glormph 10y ago
      I see you have already dealt with my question about the word justify with another commenter.
- otalp 10y ago
  Is there a link to an actual government site instead of pictures of a book in Swedish that was published decades ago? > Besides, socioeconomic factors to justify rape....really? I'm sorry, but it is really difficult to have a serious conversation with someone unable to differentiate between the process of analyzing reasons for crimes and 'justifying' crimes. That is elementary stuff. And your point doesn't even make sense. Are you saying rich, well educated muslims or african immigrants are still more likely to rape someone than a white person? Is your argument genetic? If that is not what you are implying - and I'll pay you the complement of assuming it's not, then you will have to at least consider socioeconomic factors.

by otalp 10y ago

lngnmn 10y ago

It is obvious - poor but educated people are different from poor and uneducated. To lift people out of misery and poverty is what education is for in the first place. In countries like India that could be clearly seen. Poverty alone does not account for the behavioral patterns. Education is the key. People knew this since antiquity, independently of a particular civilization - Indians knew this, Chinese knew this, you name it.

Voloskaya 10y ago
In many country, including France where issues similar to sweden exists, the quality of the education you receive is directly correlated with the median wealth of your neighborhood. Poor suburbs have way worse education than rich ones.
- lngnmn 10y ago
  Education is not only about academic knowledge per se. It is also a set of habits of self-control, acquired skills, social behavior patterns and transformed perceptions. This is what we call conditioning or exposure to certain culture. Street kids, usually members of a gang, who never have experienced transforming influence of the culture of a good school and a good teacher are definitely not the same as those who vent through one.

factsaresacred 10y ago

> What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'? How about the Swedish government themselves? - A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that "there any indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts. Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status (calculated as per SEI code) in Sweden." - Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention determined that between 1985 and 1989 individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia),Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries), other Middle East (Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Iran and Eastern Europe (Romania, Bulgaria) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, 9, 10 and 18 greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively." http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1.pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-... Besides, socioeconomic factors to justify rape....really?

glormph 10y ago
I am not arguing against your point, but are there reports which are not 20+ years old? Also, my understanding of the words may be wrong but I didn't see anyone _justifying_ rape in this thread.
- factsaresacred 10y ago
  > are there reports which are not 20+ years old? I asked the same question. In 2005 Bra released a report saying "Immigrants’ risk of being registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the end of the 1980s". https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1371914726382/2006_4_kriminalstatistik_2005.pdf https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1... Your claim was "What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones'?" so my question is 'what of rape'? This is the main crime making headlines. How does one explain it with socioeconomic factors? And even if you could, would that be a satisfactory explanation?
  - glormph 10y ago
    I see you have already dealt with my question about the word justify with another commenter.
otalp 10y ago
Is there a link to an actual government site instead of pictures of a book in Swedish that was published decades ago? > Besides, socioeconomic factors to justify rape....really? I'm sorry, but it is really difficult to have a serious conversation with someone unable to differentiate between the process of analyzing reasons for crimes and 'justifying' crimes. That is elementary stuff. And your point doesn't even make sense. Are you saying rich, well educated muslims or african immigrants are still more likely to rape someone than a white person? Is your argument genetic? If that is not what you are implying - and I'll pay you the complement of assuming it's not, then you will have to at least consider socioeconomic factors.