6 ms·

It is relevant to the topic of how to prevent crime - it tells you that eliminating immigration won't help, but that addressing poverty will.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Cutting off immigration is not some kind of autosolution, but if immigrants commit higher levels of crime compared to the rest of the population, eliminating immigration would help.
nmeofthestate 10y ago
Well, except some immigration adds to the number of people in poverty, so avoiding immigration that does that would address poverty and by extension crime. This is reasonable, unless the theory is that when an immigrant arrives in Sweden, a person already in poverty gets 'promoted' and the immigrant takes their poverty space, thus keeping poverty levels constant.
- Voloskaya 10y ago
  One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes. They are accepting more poors (and by extension statistically more crime-prone) people today, to hopefully have a still sane and stable economy in the future (thus with less poors).
  - facepalm 10y ago
    That may be their theory, but where is the validation of the theory? What are the reasons to assume it will work out that way? --- Edit: reason for assuming it won't: there are many countries with a huge population that are nevertheless poor. So number of people alone doesn't seem to help against poverty. Also, there still seem to be poor native Swedish people, so apparently Sweden does not have a working formula for lifting people out of poverty (except giving them government money, but that wouldn't scale in the way you propose - that wouldn't yield more taxes and riches in return).
    - tomlock 10y ago
      What are the reasons to assume it won't? Keep in mind that a lot of these first world countries have an aging population - so younger people being imported is good because it brings in more taxpayers versus pensioners. See this bloomberg article for some of the problems particularly immigrant-shy countries face: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-23/why-immigrant-shy-japan-is-luring-foreign-workers-quicktake-q-a https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-23/why-immig... The article itself also addresses some of these points: >Sweden has had one of the highest rates of growth in Europe over the last two years. Youth unemployment has declined considerably and is now at its lowest level for 13 years, and long-term unemployment (12 months or longer) is the lowest in the EU. Compare this with Japan: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-ails-japans-economy-16003 http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-ails-japans-economy...
      - tropo 10y ago
        Japan is and will remain Japanese. The same can not be said of Sweden. I think I see a bias here: culture is valuable, unless it is western. In the future, it will not be possible to go visit Swedish culture.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    > One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes. People have a hard time believing that because the current migration does not bring in more but less working people - the migrants have a worse dependency ratio than native population, i.e. the proportion of migrants who have a job is lower than proportion of people already in country. Among OECD countries, migrants in Sweden have the largest difference in dependency ratio to native population.
- k_swden 10y ago
  In Sweden the vast majority of immigration are refugees and so the main reason they are allowed in is on humanitarian concerns, not economical ones. Thougt many argue both in favor and against further immigration for various reasons.

aaron-lebo 10y ago

Cutting off immigration is not some kind of autosolution, but if immigrants commit higher levels of crime compared to the rest of the population, eliminating immigration would help.

nmeofthestate 10y ago

Well, except some immigration adds to the number of people in poverty, so avoiding immigration that does that would address poverty and by extension crime. This is reasonable, unless the theory is that when an immigrant arrives in Sweden, a person already in poverty gets 'promoted' and the immigrant takes their poverty space, thus keeping poverty levels constant.

Voloskaya 10y ago
One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes. They are accepting more poors (and by extension statistically more crime-prone) people today, to hopefully have a still sane and stable economy in the future (thus with less poors).
- facepalm 10y ago
  That may be their theory, but where is the validation of the theory? What are the reasons to assume it will work out that way? --- Edit: reason for assuming it won't: there are many countries with a huge population that are nevertheless poor. So number of people alone doesn't seem to help against poverty. Also, there still seem to be poor native Swedish people, so apparently Sweden does not have a working formula for lifting people out of poverty (except giving them government money, but that wouldn't scale in the way you propose - that wouldn't yield more taxes and riches in return).
  - tomlock 10y ago
    What are the reasons to assume it won't? Keep in mind that a lot of these first world countries have an aging population - so younger people being imported is good because it brings in more taxpayers versus pensioners. See this bloomberg article for some of the problems particularly immigrant-shy countries face: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-23/why-immigrant-shy-japan-is-luring-foreign-workers-quicktake-q-a https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-23/why-immig... The article itself also addresses some of these points: >Sweden has had one of the highest rates of growth in Europe over the last two years. Youth unemployment has declined considerably and is now at its lowest level for 13 years, and long-term unemployment (12 months or longer) is the lowest in the EU. Compare this with Japan: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-ails-japans-economy-16003 http://nationalinterest.org/feature/what-ails-japans-economy...
    - tropo 10y ago
      Japan is and will remain Japanese. The same can not be said of Sweden. I think I see a bias here: culture is valuable, unless it is western. In the future, it will not be possible to go visit Swedish culture.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  > One of the reason Sweden is welcoming migrants is because the birth rate is becoming really low, so there is need for new workers paying taxes. People have a hard time believing that because the current migration does not bring in more but less working people - the migrants have a worse dependency ratio than native population, i.e. the proportion of migrants who have a job is lower than proportion of people already in country. Among OECD countries, migrants in Sweden have the largest difference in dependency ratio to native population.
k_swden 10y ago
In Sweden the vast majority of immigration are refugees and so the main reason they are allowed in is on humanitarian concerns, not economical ones. Thougt many argue both in favor and against further immigration for various reasons.