4 ms·

First quote: "commit" vs Second quote: "suspected of crimes" Two completely different things.

by sgift 10y ago

qofcourse 10y ago
When the Swedish government doesn't actually prosecute the crimes, it's easy to skew the statistics in the Islamic rapists' favor.
leereeves 10y ago
"Commit" should be clarified. We don't know who actually committed a crime. That should probably be either "arrested for" or "convicted of". "Suspected of" probably means "arrested for", but there too, the author has chosen a word that's unclear.
- sgift 10y ago
  Fair remark, so let's clarify what I understand: commit: Convicted of suspected of: Not convicted These are as far as I (and the law) are concerned the only two things that matter. If you've been convicted you are guilty, if not you are not. If you're guilty we can say you've committed a crime, if not not.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Actually looking at the source of that remark (highlighted intro to an article on thelocal.de), it's not supported by the rest of the article: > The documents note that while the number of refugees in the country has risen sharply throughout 2015, the crime rate has not gone up correspondingly, but has "merely risen steadily". Of course it would not rise sharply even if refugees do commit more crimes. Refugees are a small portion of the population and will only have a small effect on overall crime rates. > Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Note: "just as" and "comparable groups", rather than the whole population. > The rate of crime in refugee reception centres has gone up most quickly. It sounds like thelocal.de took some liberties.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  I would read that completely differently. The fact that 2.5x more immigrants are 'suspected' reads as a comment on racial profiling. Unless the author clarifies it's hard to read anything into the Sweden stat.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Judging by the other statements in the article, the author seems to have more interest in inspiring that doubt than in clarifying.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    It depends on the context. Generally, the most valid data from crime apparently comes from 'victimization surveys' - as opposed to actual police data, which is politicized. So, from victimization surveys - people can only necessarily be 'suspected' of a crime i.e. 'were you robbed in the last year'? Well, if the person answered 'yes' - then the language may only imply that a specific individual was 'suspected' of a crime. Also, it's pretty difficult to determine ethnicity. So this may not simply be a case of 'police suspects' vs 'police arrests' etc.. It's complicated. Better to have the references.

First quote: "commit" vs Second quote: "suspected of crimes" Two completely different things.

by sgift 10y ago

First quote: "commit" vs Second quote: "suspected of crimes" Two completely different things.

When the Swedish government doesn't actually prosecute the crimes, it's easy to skew the statistics in the Islamic rapists' favor.

leereeves 10y ago

"Commit" should be clarified. We don't know who actually committed a crime. That should probably be either "arrested for" or "convicted of". "Suspected of" probably means "arrested for", but there too, the author has chosen a word that's unclear.

sgift 10y ago
Fair remark, so let's clarify what I understand: commit: Convicted of suspected of: Not convicted These are as far as I (and the law) are concerned the only two things that matter. If you've been convicted you are guilty, if not you are not. If you're guilty we can say you've committed a crime, if not not.
- leereeves 10y ago
  Actually looking at the source of that remark (highlighted intro to an article on thelocal.de), it's not supported by the rest of the article: > The documents note that while the number of refugees in the country has risen sharply throughout 2015, the crime rate has not gone up correspondingly, but has "merely risen steadily". Of course it would not rise sharply even if refugees do commit more crimes. Refugees are a small portion of the population and will only have a small effect on overall crime rates. > Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Note: "just as" and "comparable groups", rather than the whole population. > The rate of crime in refugee reception centres has gone up most quickly. It sounds like thelocal.de took some liberties.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
I would read that completely differently. The fact that 2.5x more immigrants are 'suspected' reads as a comment on racial profiling. Unless the author clarifies it's hard to read anything into the Sweden stat.
- leereeves 10y ago
  Judging by the other statements in the article, the author seems to have more interest in inspiring that doubt than in clarifying.
- edblarney 10y ago
  It depends on the context. Generally, the most valid data from crime apparently comes from 'victimization surveys' - as opposed to actual police data, which is politicized. So, from victimization surveys - people can only necessarily be 'suspected' of a crime i.e. 'were you robbed in the last year'? Well, if the person answered 'yes' - then the language may only imply that a specific individual was 'suspected' of a crime. Also, it's pretty difficult to determine ethnicity. So this may not simply be a case of 'police suspects' vs 'police arrests' etc.. It's complicated. Better to have the references.