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> In Germany, refugees are less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen Meanwhile in Sweden: > According to the most recent study, people from forei

> In Germany, refugees are less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen Meanwhile in Sweden: > According to the most recent study, people from foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
8draco8 10y ago
Can you share the source?
- leereeves 10y ago
  Facts about migration and crime in Sweden from the Swedish government. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migrat...
sgift 10y ago
First quote: "commit" vs Second quote: "suspected of crimes" Two completely different things.
- qofcourse 10y ago
  When the Swedish government doesn't actually prosecute the crimes, it's easy to skew the statistics in the Islamic rapists' favor.
- leereeves 10y ago
  "Commit" should be clarified. We don't know who actually committed a crime. That should probably be either "arrested for" or "convicted of". "Suspected of" probably means "arrested for", but there too, the author has chosen a word that's unclear.
  - sgift 10y ago
    Fair remark, so let's clarify what I understand: commit: Convicted of suspected of: Not convicted These are as far as I (and the law) are concerned the only two things that matter. If you've been convicted you are guilty, if not you are not. If you're guilty we can say you've committed a crime, if not not.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      Actually looking at the source of that remark (highlighted intro to an article on thelocal.de), it's not supported by the rest of the article: > The documents note that while the number of refugees in the country has risen sharply throughout 2015, the crime rate has not gone up correspondingly, but has "merely risen steadily". Of course it would not rise sharply even if refugees do commit more crimes. Refugees are a small portion of the population and will only have a small effect on overall crime rates. > Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Note: "just as" and "comparable groups", rather than the whole population. > The rate of crime in refugee reception centres has gone up most quickly. It sounds like thelocal.de took some liberties.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    I would read that completely differently. The fact that 2.5x more immigrants are 'suspected' reads as a comment on racial profiling. Unless the author clarifies it's hard to read anything into the Sweden stat.
    - leereeves 10y ago
      Judging by the other statements in the article, the author seems to have more interest in inspiring that doubt than in clarifying.
    - edblarney 10y ago
      It depends on the context. Generally, the most valid data from crime apparently comes from 'victimization surveys' - as opposed to actual police data, which is politicized. So, from victimization surveys - people can only necessarily be 'suspected' of a crime i.e. 'were you robbed in the last year'? Well, if the person answered 'yes' - then the language may only imply that a specific individual was 'suspected' of a crime. Also, it's pretty difficult to determine ethnicity. So this may not simply be a case of 'police suspects' vs 'police arrests' etc.. It's complicated. Better to have the references.
literallycancer 10y ago
>> According to the most recent study, people from foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents. What do you imply exactly? So Swedish police are more likely to suspect you if you are a foreigner, how unexpected.
- qofcourse 10y ago
  It's worse than that. People from foreign backgrounds are probably committing far more crimes than this suggests - but because the police are so politically correct, they UNDERREPORT crimes by foreigners.
  - egeozcan 10y ago
    You've been bombarding this discussion with your alternate reality. Do you have any references?
    - gd1 10y ago
      Rotherham
  - brorfred 10y ago
    Have you ever met the Swedish police? Does the term "baseball gang" say anything?
- leereeves 10y ago
  I think you made just the leap the authors intended you to. I wish the authors had included a link to that study so we could see what "suspected of" means exactly.
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    I don't need a link to a study to tell you what it means. The meaning is exactly the same as in normal speech, too bad for you since you'll have to do even more mental gymnastics to resolve your cognitive dissonance. It means someone was suspected (e.g. were at any time a suspect during the investigation), regardless of whether they actually committed anything or not.
otalp 10y ago
There's a difference between 'people from foreign backgrounds' and refugees. Even in Germany, I wouldn't be surprised if 'people from foreign backgrounds' commit crimes at a higher rate when you don't adjust for socio-economic conditions. However the majority of Syrian refugees - about 70%[1][2][3] are women and children. Again, something that is rarely mentioned in certain parts of the internet. [1]- http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/02/keith-ellison/rep-keith-ellison-correct-demographic-overview-syr/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/... [2]-https://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php https://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php [3]-http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/14/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-refugees-migrants-are-mo/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/...
- acqq 10y ago
  > However the majority of Syrian refugees - about 70%[1][2][3] are women and children. However the majority of all 2015 refugees aren't Syrian?
  - sp332 10y ago
    I was pretty sure they were actually. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 Edit: I misread this chart... a lot. Syrians are the largest group but not the majority. Never mind!
    - acqq 10y ago
      acqq> the majority of all 2015 refugees aren't Syrian > I was pretty sure they were actually (link to BBC) Your link has 1.32 million asylum claims, around 360 thousand Syrians, then roughly one fourth are Syrians, three fourths aren't, that is, the majority of all aren't.
- yAnonymous 10y ago
  They do. According to official police statistics, 'people from foreign backgrounds' are responsible for about 30% of violent crimes, which makes them about three times as likely to commit such a crime, and they make up about 30-40% of the prison population.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

8draco8 10y ago

Can you share the source?

leereeves 10y ago
Facts about migration and crime in Sweden from the Swedish government. http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/ http://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migrat...

sgift 10y ago

First quote: "commit" vs Second quote: "suspected of crimes" Two completely different things.

qofcourse 10y ago
When the Swedish government doesn't actually prosecute the crimes, it's easy to skew the statistics in the Islamic rapists' favor.
leereeves 10y ago
"Commit" should be clarified. We don't know who actually committed a crime. That should probably be either "arrested for" or "convicted of". "Suspected of" probably means "arrested for", but there too, the author has chosen a word that's unclear.
- sgift 10y ago
  Fair remark, so let's clarify what I understand: commit: Convicted of suspected of: Not convicted These are as far as I (and the law) are concerned the only two things that matter. If you've been convicted you are guilty, if not you are not. If you're guilty we can say you've committed a crime, if not not.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Actually looking at the source of that remark (highlighted intro to an article on thelocal.de), it's not supported by the rest of the article: > The documents note that while the number of refugees in the country has risen sharply throughout 2015, the crime rate has not gone up correspondingly, but has "merely risen steadily". Of course it would not rise sharply even if refugees do commit more crimes. Refugees are a small portion of the population and will only have a small effect on overall crime rates. > Interior Minsiter Thomas de Maizière responded to the news by saying: "The current trend shows that refugees are just as unlikely to commit crimes as comparable groups among the current population. The majority of them don't commit crimes, they are seeking protection and and peace in Germany." Note: "just as" and "comparable groups", rather than the whole population. > The rate of crime in refugee reception centres has gone up most quickly. It sounds like thelocal.de took some liberties.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  I would read that completely differently. The fact that 2.5x more immigrants are 'suspected' reads as a comment on racial profiling. Unless the author clarifies it's hard to read anything into the Sweden stat.
  - leereeves 10y ago
    Judging by the other statements in the article, the author seems to have more interest in inspiring that doubt than in clarifying.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    It depends on the context. Generally, the most valid data from crime apparently comes from 'victimization surveys' - as opposed to actual police data, which is politicized. So, from victimization surveys - people can only necessarily be 'suspected' of a crime i.e. 'were you robbed in the last year'? Well, if the person answered 'yes' - then the language may only imply that a specific individual was 'suspected' of a crime. Also, it's pretty difficult to determine ethnicity. So this may not simply be a case of 'police suspects' vs 'police arrests' etc.. It's complicated. Better to have the references.

literallycancer 10y ago

>> According to the most recent study, people from foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents. What do you imply exactly? So Swedish police are more likely to suspect you if you are a foreigner, how unexpected.

qofcourse 10y ago
It's worse than that. People from foreign backgrounds are probably committing far more crimes than this suggests - but because the police are so politically correct, they UNDERREPORT crimes by foreigners.
- egeozcan 10y ago
  You've been bombarding this discussion with your alternate reality. Do you have any references?
  - gd1 10y ago
    Rotherham
- brorfred 10y ago
  Have you ever met the Swedish police? Does the term "baseball gang" say anything?
leereeves 10y ago
I think you made just the leap the authors intended you to. I wish the authors had included a link to that study so we could see what "suspected of" means exactly.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  I don't need a link to a study to tell you what it means. The meaning is exactly the same as in normal speech, too bad for you since you'll have to do even more mental gymnastics to resolve your cognitive dissonance. It means someone was suspected (e.g. were at any time a suspect during the investigation), regardless of whether they actually committed anything or not.

otalp 10y ago

There's a difference between 'people from foreign backgrounds' and refugees. Even in Germany, I wouldn't be surprised if 'people from foreign backgrounds' commit crimes at a higher rate when you don't adjust for socio-economic conditions. However the majority of Syrian refugees - about 70%[1][2][3] are women and children. Again, something that is rarely mentioned in certain parts of the internet. [1]- http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/02/keith-ellison/rep-keith-ellison-correct-demographic-overview-syr/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/... [2]-https://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php https://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php [3]-http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/14/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-refugees-migrants-are-mo/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/...

acqq 10y ago
> However the majority of Syrian refugees - about 70%[1][2][3] are women and children. However the majority of all 2015 refugees aren't Syrian?
- sp332 10y ago
  I was pretty sure they were actually. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 Edit: I misread this chart... a lot. Syrians are the largest group but not the majority. Never mind!
  - acqq 10y ago
    acqq> the majority of all 2015 refugees aren't Syrian > I was pretty sure they were actually (link to BBC) Your link has 1.32 million asylum claims, around 360 thousand Syrians, then roughly one fourth are Syrians, three fourths aren't, that is, the majority of all aren't.
yAnonymous 10y ago
They do. According to official police statistics, 'people from foreign backgrounds' are responsible for about 30% of violent crimes, which makes them about three times as likely to commit such a crime, and they make up about 30-40% of the prison population.