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When Linux Subsystem will be finally finished I personally don't see any reason to use Linux as desktop environment. As for MacOS looks - Windows also are rele
by romanovcode 10y ago
When Linux Subsystem will be finally finished I personally don't see any reason to use Linux as desktop environment.
As for MacOS looks - Windows also are releasing update to their visuals this year which looks pretty darn aesthetically pleasing. [0]
[0] https://blogs-images.forbes.com/amitchowdhry/files/2017/02/Project-NEON.jpg https://blogs-images.forbes.com/amitchowdhry/files/2017/02/P...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- wueihgiug 10y agoi dunno...part of why i use Linux or MacOS is the knowledge that under the hood they're well designed. With Windows, no matter how good it looks, I feel like it's an ugly system, not to mention insecure.
- raesene6 10y agoerr modern windows has many good security measures and in many cases Microsoft are ahead of the curve in adopting new security techniques. For me "insecure windows" is an old trope and not particuarly accurate any more.
- dawnerd 10y agoThe most insecure part of the operating system is the user itself. You can only do so much to stop people from doing dumb things.
- pdpi 10y agoHow so? It's definitely an unfamiliar system, for me, and there might or might not be vulnerabilities in the current implementation, but I have no reason to believe that the windows NT model is intrinsically less secure than the unix model.
- monsieurbanana 10y agoI just want to randomly poke in the discussion to say that out of the three big OS, MacOS user interface is the most vomit-inducing. I know this feeling isn't shared by most. Now that windows has nice workspaces and an already usable UNIX environnement (Windows Subsystem still has things to iron out, but it's very nice for a beta), my personal ranking became: Linux > Windows > MacOS I see nothing that MacOS offers that Windows doesn't, whereas Windows has potential for much better hardware specs, games, bigger user base. The only thing left for Apple is their 16:10 screen and their per-monitor scaling.
- Insanity 10y agoSame ranking for me here. At home I use Linux and would never go back to the alternatives but at workI had to use Mac and Windows. If Mac did not have a good terminal (iterm2 is what I used) then it would be no competition at all. I do miss a good terminal in windows but assume the Linux subsystem will fill that hole
- sz4kerto 10y agoThe security infrastructure behind the Windows desktop is a decade ahead of the Linux desktop. Yes, kernels are okay in both cases, but e.g. Xorg is a security disaster.
- AsyncAwait 10y agoThat's why we have Wayland, (and yes you can use it today, just install Fedora 25 or Arch with GNOME).
- 72deluxe 10y agoHow can it be ugly if it looks good?
- pjmlp 10y agoReading books like "Windows Internals" would reveal to you the actual way how things are designed.
- hd4 10y agoOh come on, there are plenty of reasons, it's a case of whether they affect you enough personally. Telemetry, closed-source kernel/base system, Microsoft's history of nasty practice in the computing industry, E&E, having to pay money vs. free as in beer, outside of the VS ecosystem a generally poor development experience.
- cube2222 10y agoWell, the new microsoft is actually one of the biggest open source contributors. I'm a UNIX developer (mainly Go), and I use a surface pro 4 with win 10 for development. Bash on Ubuntu on Windows already runs great, and I have the ability to sketch diagrams whenever I want to. Additionally I have docker running flawlessly and a system that just works 99.9% of the time. (as opposed to Linux where I have to hack my way through most of the things)
- forvelin 10y agoWall of texts in this lovely page [0] are set of good reasons to consider before switching to Microsoft. If nothing, EEE [1] is. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
- romanovcode 10y agoOh, good old EEE. So that's why they open sourced and redesigned .NET Core and C#? To extinguish it? Come on.
- ATsch 10y agoYes, this is the "Embrace" Phase.
- mcintyre1994 10y agoSo what will they be extinguishing?
- romanovcode 10y ago.NET, obviously! :'D
- NTripleOne 10y ago>EEE end this FUD
- grive 10y agoNo package management on Windows? Even if they somehow managed to do an app-store, that wouldn't be tailored for developers.
- romanovcode 10y agoI use apt-get.
- grive 10y agoIf you are dependent on the linux ecosystem, it seems counter-productive to awkwardly force your workflow on another one.
- romanovcode 10y agoIt's not awkward at all. I use cmder that is using Linux subsystem beneath it. For example: - apt-get install php - php -S localhost:8081 - Launch Chrome on Windows, go to localhost:8081 (it works) There is zero awkwardness or extra configuration there. Only problem is that some things do not work properly yet (because still beta). For example `go get github.com/mattn/go-sqlite3` will not work because of some ?gcc? compilation issue. But it's getting fixed on next release.
- pjc50 10y agoWindows already has an app store (although it's pretty terrible). It's had non-networked package management for decades (through .msi files that end up as line items in Control Panel). Nowadays there seems to be a move to nuget and chocolatey.
- chaostheory 10y agoIt kind of does now: https://chocolatey.org/ https://chocolatey.org/
- rayiner 10y agoIt's not whether Windows is aesthetically pleasing. It's that it's 2016 and some first-party windows apps still upscale fonts rendered at half resolution. It's that there are two control panels. That kind of messiness is endemic to the platform.
- talmand 10y agoI don't agree with the notion of blaming the platform because some devs refuse to update to modern standards of the platform. That's on the devs.
- tptacek 10y agoFirst party, as in, provided by Microsoft. I just ran Win10 for the first time yesterday to work on a security guideline and I was blown away by how janky the whole thing was. Using it is like crawling through 20 years of computer history; there's things from every phase of Windows since '95 in that UI, and I don't mean UI hints, but entire applications. I bet somewhere in there there's still UI that dates back to Win3.1.
- talmand 10y agoWell, I think it is quite possible that the devs on the first-party team are not the same devs on the platform team. First-party or not, if the platform provides the tools and the devs refuse to use them, it is on the devs. Not the platform, the devs. Unless you can show me where the company demands its devs do so for no good reason. >> I bet somewhere in there there's still UI that dates back to Win3.1. I'm sure there is, that's a mix of backwards compatibility and don't mess with stuff that works. Some people want it, some people don't; can't make everybody happy. Can I complain that OS X provides a terminal that looks like it dates back to the 70's?
- tptacek 10y agoNo? Because that complaint doesn't make any sense? Especially since Terminal.app is far more modern than CMD.EXE?
- 72deluxe 10y agoFor me that picture indicates all manner of problems. The main window does not follow the Windows user guidelines, which is bad enough in Windows 10 already. For decades double-clicking on the top left corner of a window means that you want to close it - it was explicitly mentioned in the 3.11 manual. With 7 (or was it Vista?) they removed the icon from Explorer for no obvious reason, but kept the functionality there - you could still doubleclick the invisible icon and it'd do what you expect. With early Windows 10, the Settings app didn't even have a title bar so there was no clear demarcation from the window grey to the titlebar grey - how would I know that the grey bar at the top was the way I moved the window but the grey bit beneath the grey bit at the top DIDN'T move the window?? With current Windows 10, the Settings app finally has a title bar that has a colour like all other applications. But the paradigm we learned 20+ years ago (double click top left to close the window) and the ability to get the window menu HAS GONE. I can still press Ctrl-space and get the window menu but the ability to get the window menu from a Metro app or a metro-style app using the mouse has completely gone. So now I have to learn another method of interacting with the basic building block of the system - windows. When each window behaves differently according to the "metro or not" measuring stick, this does not make for a great user experience. And this is me coming from using Windows since the 90s. How do you think new users and my mum is going to get on?? What's the point of having window guidelines if Microsoft themselves don't even follow them?? So although the screenshot is aesthetically pleasing, I remain very concerned about the direction usability is taking on the platform.
- romanovcode 10y agoYeah, I totally agree but it must be really hard to implement new guidlines for a monster (super large) company like MS. They are moving slowly, but IMO to the right direction.
- talmand 10y agoI don't know, when Apple decides to change things to go against the established norms they call it being courageous. Somehow, I'm not bothered about ignoring learned paradigms from so many years ago. For example, my 12 year old daughter could care less how you learned windows management 24 years ago. She's learned to Windows as it is today.
- tomtheelder 10y agoI dual boot Ubuntu and Windows on my desktop, and I only switch to Windows when I need to use an application that is Windows only. I find it to be a more pleasant and user friendly desktop experience. Switching back to Windows honestly feels like stepping into the past.