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You know what? I am disgusted and ashamed that a message board that I read and participate in daily is reacting this way. I'm sick of how Silicon Valley always

You know what? I am disgusted and ashamed that a message board that I read and participate in daily is reacting this way. I'm sick of how Silicon Valley always puts money and internal graft ahead of inconvenient things like morals and acting like decent human beings. Beyond that, I'm tired of how everyone then tries to pretend that these actions that are taken out of greed and ambition to "rule the world" are somehow in the public's best interest. I see no reason why you are reprimanding a pair of human beings who realized that the company that they have aided, abetted, and implicitly condoned through their investment, and then decided to do what little they could to try to influence that company to fix the situation.

layer8burrito 10y ago
What makes you think people aren't objecting to this because of their morals? I find it extremely ammoral to post unsubstantiated accusations on a blog then rally a witch hunt. Then for high powered people like Kapor to jump on board with zero evidence of wrongdoing on Uber's part... it's quite frankly terrifying. Innocent until proven guilty is a moral code some of us abide by.
shirleman 10y ago
If someone misbehaves, you talk to them quietly first. If that doesn't work, you need to look at taking more drastic measures. Uber investors have been MUCH too quiet. I'd push LPs in VC funds who sit on their board to put pressure on the VCs to fix it. If 5-10 major pensions/endowments threatened to pull out of future funds for a VC, they would stand up and take notice.
ethbro 10y ago
Well said. Either SV is different than business is usual... or it's not. And if it's not (and not willing to self police to a higher ethical standard), then we should really start asking whether we're comfortable with these companies having the amount of access to our lives they do. Would you trust Walmart with an Echo type device in your house?
- tyingq 10y ago
  >Would you trust Walmart with an Echo type device in your house? Offtopic, but that's an odd example. I wouldn't trust WalMart to be fair to their employees, suppliers, etc. But, they aren't the company that comes to mind when I think "who would I least want to potentially listen in on me whenever they wanted?" The company I do worry about in that space does happen to sell an Echo type device...and it's not Amazon.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  What company would you trust with an Echo type device in your house? I think the entire proposition is insane given the state of the law.
  - rdl 10y ago
    In terms of "business model", clearly Apple is the one I'd trust the most, Google/FB the least, and Amazon in the middle. But I agree with laws the way they are, it's very problematic. Either the tech needs to change, or the law -- I have a lot more confidence we'll finally see a (not really re)-surgence in privacy protecting consumer tech.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- Spooky23 10y ago
  What's different about Amazon vs Walmart? What makes them trustworthy? If you dig down a bit, you'll find that it's not much. There's nothing at all special about Silicon Valley companies with respect to ethics.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    I was trying to find a well-known company to illustrate the difference in how we look at tech companies vs "non-tech" companies. For another example, if Comcast compiles user data, it's scummy. If Google does it, we might gripe about it a bit, but it's business as usual.
smallgovt 10y ago
I think you're misplacing motives here. The root cause for the founder sentiment in this thread is empathy. The firestorm Uber is facing may be self-inflicted and justified, but the management team there is made up of real people that are in all likelihood good at heart. When you have an ongoing PR crisis, a letter like this makes things impossibly difficult. And, the fact that it's written by someone who's supposed to be a trusted team member is an arrow through the heart.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  I have absolutely no empathy for the management team at Uber. They are the ones that set their company up to be like this. They have known for a long, long time that their company culture was terrible. The only reason they're appearing to do anything now is because it became public. I absolutely wish this "stress" on them, because they deserve it for letting their company get to this state. And people who are good at heart don't let their company's culture get like that.
  - eddieplan9 10y ago
    > people who are good at heart don't let their company's culture get like that This kind of comment is too harsh and over-simplifies the kind of decisions that growth-phase startups have to face. You have many battles to fight, and sometimes you have to make a trade-off. In Uber's case, they prioritized hiring and firing people to manage performance over dealing with culture issues. Not saying the trade-off they make is right - I think they all realize now they cannot treat themselves as a startup any more - but claiming the management at the company are not good at heart is just totally unjustified. Do you also think startups that lay off people when they don't need them or move operations to cheap regions to also have bad heart?
    - pjc50 10y ago
      > lay off people when they don't need them or move operations to cheap regions to also have bad heart? Those are always rather cold-hearted actions. Employees are not a disposable quantity that you can dump at Goodwill like surplus furniture; companies should make sincere efforts to avoid layoffs.

layer8burrito 10y ago

What makes you think people aren't objecting to this because of their morals? I find it extremely ammoral to post unsubstantiated accusations on a blog then rally a witch hunt. Then for high powered people like Kapor to jump on board with zero evidence of wrongdoing on Uber's part... it's quite frankly terrifying. Innocent until proven guilty is a moral code some of us abide by.

shirleman 10y ago

If someone misbehaves, you talk to them quietly first. If that doesn't work, you need to look at taking more drastic measures. Uber investors have been MUCH too quiet. I'd push LPs in VC funds who sit on their board to put pressure on the VCs to fix it. If 5-10 major pensions/endowments threatened to pull out of future funds for a VC, they would stand up and take notice.

ethbro 10y ago

Well said. Either SV is different than business is usual... or it's not. And if it's not (and not willing to self police to a higher ethical standard), then we should really start asking whether we're comfortable with these companies having the amount of access to our lives they do. Would you trust Walmart with an Echo type device in your house?

tyingq 10y ago
>Would you trust Walmart with an Echo type device in your house? Offtopic, but that's an odd example. I wouldn't trust WalMart to be fair to their employees, suppliers, etc. But, they aren't the company that comes to mind when I think "who would I least want to potentially listen in on me whenever they wanted?" The company I do worry about in that space does happen to sell an Echo type device...and it's not Amazon.
M_Grey 10y ago
What company would you trust with an Echo type device in your house? I think the entire proposition is insane given the state of the law.
- rdl 10y ago
  In terms of "business model", clearly Apple is the one I'd trust the most, Google/FB the least, and Amazon in the middle. But I agree with laws the way they are, it's very problematic. Either the tech needs to change, or the law -- I have a lot more confidence we'll finally see a (not really re)-surgence in privacy protecting consumer tech.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
Spooky23 10y ago
What's different about Amazon vs Walmart? What makes them trustworthy? If you dig down a bit, you'll find that it's not much. There's nothing at all special about Silicon Valley companies with respect to ethics.
- ethbro 10y ago
  I was trying to find a well-known company to illustrate the difference in how we look at tech companies vs "non-tech" companies. For another example, if Comcast compiles user data, it's scummy. If Google does it, we might gripe about it a bit, but it's business as usual.

smallgovt 10y ago

I think you're misplacing motives here. The root cause for the founder sentiment in this thread is empathy. The firestorm Uber is facing may be self-inflicted and justified, but the management team there is made up of real people that are in all likelihood good at heart. When you have an ongoing PR crisis, a letter like this makes things impossibly difficult. And, the fact that it's written by someone who's supposed to be a trusted team member is an arrow through the heart.

st3v3r 10y ago
I have absolutely no empathy for the management team at Uber. They are the ones that set their company up to be like this. They have known for a long, long time that their company culture was terrible. The only reason they're appearing to do anything now is because it became public. I absolutely wish this "stress" on them, because they deserve it for letting their company get to this state. And people who are good at heart don't let their company's culture get like that.
- eddieplan9 10y ago
  > people who are good at heart don't let their company's culture get like that This kind of comment is too harsh and over-simplifies the kind of decisions that growth-phase startups have to face. You have many battles to fight, and sometimes you have to make a trade-off. In Uber's case, they prioritized hiring and firing people to manage performance over dealing with culture issues. Not saying the trade-off they make is right - I think they all realize now they cannot treat themselves as a startup any more - but claiming the management at the company are not good at heart is just totally unjustified. Do you also think startups that lay off people when they don't need them or move operations to cheap regions to also have bad heart?
  - pjc50 10y ago
    > lay off people when they don't need them or move operations to cheap regions to also have bad heart? Those are always rather cold-hearted actions. Employees are not a disposable quantity that you can dump at Goodwill like surplus furniture; companies should make sincere efforts to avoid layoffs.