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>There's a lot of defensiveness in your response, which is understandable given how charged a lot of these conversations can get. I've intentionally phrased the

>There's a lot of defensiveness in your response, which is understandable given how charged a lot of these conversations can get. I've intentionally phrased the questions to allow for disagreement on whether these topics should even be a concern. You're right, and I appreciate your phrasing. However, I feel very strongly about this, because I feel these policies hurt everyone, from the people in the majority they directly disadvantage to the minority groups they are supposed to advance. >As for discarding your opinion, I wouldn't be asking for it if my intent was to discard it. Could you say the same of every other person likely to view this thread? The same ideology that leads people to inject identity politics into everything is also the one that leads people to discard opinions if they're not from the "right" people. Everyone who isn't a complete minority has absolutely no incentive to tell people what demographic they belong to. >As for the rest, it looks like it boils down for you that any disparity that currently exists is fine. I wouldn't say this is true, but part of my dismissive attitude comes from the linked article, which suggests that people should change their hiring practices to move closer to their ideal of a "diverse" company, where all demographics have equal representation. I don't believe this ideal has value, and I believe trying to attain it is discriminatory and harmful to society at large. That doesn't mean all disparities should not be corrected, just that their correction should not involve rigging zero-sum games such as job admittance or university acceptance in favor of their demographic. Instead I am in favor of solutions further down the line, where the actual problem exists, such as increased school funding and better teachers so that these people have a better chance of getting into college and succeeding once they get there.

grzm 10y ago
I appreciate that you feel strongly about this: it's clear that a lot of people do. I encourage you to figure out if this is a conversation you actually want to have, or if you are content with only expressing your views. You've been very quick to assume that people are going to dismiss the validity of your views ("Could you say the same of every other person likely to view this thread?"), and are just as quick to dismiss those of others by assuming their intent ("those of a particular ideological demographic"). These are tough conversations to have. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and engage in a genuine manner to look for solutions people can agree upon. You're right that not everyone on HN (or elsewhere, for that matter) are going to be able to do that, but if everyone waits for everyone else to put their best foot forward, no progress is going to be made at all. You mention increased school funding and better teachers. How do propose doing this? In the US, there's increasing focus on decreasing funding in public schools. Coupled with school funding being closely associated with property taxes, those most disadvantaged are those with the least funding available.

grzm 10y ago

I appreciate that you feel strongly about this: it's clear that a lot of people do. I encourage you to figure out if this is a conversation you actually want to have, or if you are content with only expressing your views. You've been very quick to assume that people are going to dismiss the validity of your views ("Could you say the same of every other person likely to view this thread?"), and are just as quick to dismiss those of others by assuming their intent ("those of a particular ideological demographic"). These are tough conversations to have. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and engage in a genuine manner to look for solutions people can agree upon. You're right that not everyone on HN (or elsewhere, for that matter) are going to be able to do that, but if everyone waits for everyone else to put their best foot forward, no progress is going to be made at all. You mention increased school funding and better teachers. How do propose doing this? In the US, there's increasing focus on decreasing funding in public schools. Coupled with school funding being closely associated with property taxes, those most disadvantaged are those with the least funding available.