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Yes, hiring people based on their race/gender creates a perverse framework of incentives. A good example of some of the problems that arise from valuing "divers

Yes, hiring people based on their race/gender creates a perverse framework of incentives. A good example of some of the problems that arise from valuing "diversity" over actual merits is Susan Fowler. Her bosses treated her very badly because she was a woman, by refusing her requests to transfer and giving her bad marks on her performance exams, and the reason they did it was because of their incentive to appear "diverse". I don't mean to excuse their behavior, it was horrible, but maybe things would have been somewhat better if the system didn't reward her bosses for having a woman on their team (and subsequent disincentive for them leaving).

dllthomas 10y ago
> the reason they did it was because of their incentive to appear "diverse" This seems to radically mischaracterize the issues in that case.
- emiliobumachar 10y ago
  It seems to match her original blog post. "It turned out that keeping me on the team made my manager look good, and I overheard him boasting to the rest of the team that even though the rest of the teams were losing their women engineers left and right, he still had some on his team." (from https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...) That's not the worst thing she reported, but it's there, and it's definitely very bad. Would you elaborate on what mischaracterization you see?
  - dllthomas 10y ago
    A characterization that the origin of the problem was Uber paying too much attention to diversity statistics.
    - Oxitendwe 10y ago
      I think it's very reasonable to say that the reason it made her bosses look good to have a woman on their team was directly because of the push for diversity and inclusion in the tech world. Why else would they value such a thing?
r00fus 10y ago
Uber's problem was the workplace was toxic. In a former company, as a straight guy I've been hit on by another guy who was my team lead (and well connected). I can tell you it was not comfortable. I ended up leaving to another project as a planned transition, but my initial complaints directly to that team lead were laughed off as "I'm kidding (but I'll try again)". I bet there are a LOT of unreported such cases. Susan Fowler's case has less to do with race/gender than sexual harassment and abuse of power. I sure as hell would avoid working there if that kind of behavior goes unchecked.

dllthomas 10y ago

> the reason they did it was because of their incentive to appear "diverse" This seems to radically mischaracterize the issues in that case.

emiliobumachar 10y ago
It seems to match her original blog post. "It turned out that keeping me on the team made my manager look good, and I overheard him boasting to the rest of the team that even though the rest of the teams were losing their women engineers left and right, he still had some on his team." (from https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...) That's not the worst thing she reported, but it's there, and it's definitely very bad. Would you elaborate on what mischaracterization you see?
- dllthomas 10y ago
  A characterization that the origin of the problem was Uber paying too much attention to diversity statistics.
  - Oxitendwe 10y ago
    I think it's very reasonable to say that the reason it made her bosses look good to have a woman on their team was directly because of the push for diversity and inclusion in the tech world. Why else would they value such a thing?

r00fus 10y ago

Uber's problem was the workplace was toxic. In a former company, as a straight guy I've been hit on by another guy who was my team lead (and well connected). I can tell you it was not comfortable. I ended up leaving to another project as a planned transition, but my initial complaints directly to that team lead were laughed off as "I'm kidding (but I'll try again)". I bet there are a LOT of unreported such cases. Susan Fowler's case has less to do with race/gender than sexual harassment and abuse of power. I sure as hell would avoid working there if that kind of behavior goes unchecked.