4 ms·

I'm not convinced that it needs to be explicitly computed in a feedforward sense. If you just let the price float, then price will naturally form an error sign

I'm not convinced that it needs to be explicitly computed in a feedforward sense. If you just let the price float, then price will naturally form an error signal that the energy storage market (and customer demand) can respond to.

leereeves 10y ago
Not many people will be happy "reducing customer demand" in the middle of the night in a bitter cold winter.
- mrfusion 10y ago
  But their automated thermostat won't mind!
  - brandmeyer 10y ago
    There's definitely a vein of "smart grid" technology that is based around the utility shedding the customer's load for them, in a sort of fractional rolling brownout. I don't think we need to go there, and that most folks would be rightly pissed off at the imposition of such by their mammoth utility. OTOH, I could see a Nest-style device which can read the day-ahead price and adjust for the customer based on their own preferences being perfectly acceptable.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      There's no need to "impose" this. It provides economic value, so it can either be seen as a discount for opting in, or an extra charge for opting out. People already do this in a manual fashion with time-of-use rates.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      Note that load shedding can include changing the temperature by a couple of degrees. So, not only can it be an opt-in or opt-out situation instead of being "imposed", it can be something that most folks would sleep right through.
- brandmeyer 10y ago
  Cold snaps certainly do happen even in climates that normally only justify a heat pump. I grew up in rural SE Tennessee, so I totally get that. Even in an environment of electric heating and an impoverished customer base, the price doesn't have to be totally inelastic to avoid a social justice nightmare. You can choose not to run the electric clothes dryer in the middle of the night, for example. Having regular large price swings will be accurately perceived by the energy storage market as an arbitrage opportunity. Even if you only allow the price to swing by some limit (say, by enforcing a maximum price ceiling on the utility through the state regulatory commission), the electric utility will be incentivised to pay even more than the natural swing to third parties who can provide that arbitrage.

leereeves 10y ago

Not many people will be happy "reducing customer demand" in the middle of the night in a bitter cold winter.

mrfusion 10y ago
But their automated thermostat won't mind!
- brandmeyer 10y ago
  There's definitely a vein of "smart grid" technology that is based around the utility shedding the customer's load for them, in a sort of fractional rolling brownout. I don't think we need to go there, and that most folks would be rightly pissed off at the imposition of such by their mammoth utility. OTOH, I could see a Nest-style device which can read the day-ahead price and adjust for the customer based on their own preferences being perfectly acceptable.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    There's no need to "impose" this. It provides economic value, so it can either be seen as a discount for opting in, or an extra charge for opting out. People already do this in a manual fashion with time-of-use rates.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    Note that load shedding can include changing the temperature by a couple of degrees. So, not only can it be an opt-in or opt-out situation instead of being "imposed", it can be something that most folks would sleep right through.
brandmeyer 10y ago
Cold snaps certainly do happen even in climates that normally only justify a heat pump. I grew up in rural SE Tennessee, so I totally get that. Even in an environment of electric heating and an impoverished customer base, the price doesn't have to be totally inelastic to avoid a social justice nightmare. You can choose not to run the electric clothes dryer in the middle of the night, for example. Having regular large price swings will be accurately perceived by the energy storage market as an arbitrage opportunity. Even if you only allow the price to swing by some limit (say, by enforcing a maximum price ceiling on the utility through the state regulatory commission), the electric utility will be incentivised to pay even more than the natural swing to third parties who can provide that arbitrage.